Is it worth going from points to an electronic ignition system?

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okwebb

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I’m thinking about going to a Boyer Bransden electronic ignition system. It looks easy enough to change over. I’d like to hear pros & cons.
Thanks
 
That question only can be answered by you. Have you replaced, set points before? Comfortable doing it?
Previous owner put a Boyer on my Norton. Worked good.
I still have the points in my 1973 TX750 Yamaha. Starts first kick, runs great. No plans to convert.
OTOH, if you always hired your tune-ups done, or struggled doing points....
 
Quite right! Points/AAU require periodic maintenance. In addition to adjusting/replacing points/condensor, you must clean/lube the AAU mechanism to ensure it works correctly. An EI eliminates that maintenance.

HOWEVER, a properly tuned/maintained points/AAU ignition will outperform many (not all) of the EI's simply because it has a superior advance curve for the engine. Most of the current EI's don't hit max advance until 5000 RPM; the OEM system is at max advance at 3000 so you have more midrange response with the points/AAU IF properly set and maintained. Also, points can generally operate at lower system voltages than EIs and they are unaffected by electromagnetic interference, etc.

But it all comes down to what you are comfortable with. Nowadays, most folks don't care for the maintenance involved with points/AAU.
 
I prefer the EI on my Commando because I don't have a table jack to raise it to a comfortable working height where I can see what I'm doing. I have left the GL with points because of ease of access to everything. One requires a little periodic maintenance while the other needs none, so your choice.... Points don't just fail in the middle of nowhere on a moonless night, but may produce some rough running.
 
jbruney said:
......... But it is an all time favorite.
Click to expand...
So is sex and risk taking, but if you do either or both with the same frequency as these asinine re-runs you'd have the opportunity to ask your maker the same question; perhaps your maker has more tolerance, can't say, I've only had a very few glimpses, no time for questions...

Best
 
OKWebb, I think there are better E-ignitions than the Boyer but, as noted, there is considerable variation in opinion on that. Again, IMO an important factor is to duplicate the OEM ignition curve. Perhaps the latest/greatest Boyer does that but they didn't in the past. There is a post comparing the ignition curves of the most common EI's compared to the points/AAU but, as has been pointed out, you'll probably have to search to find it. I don't recall who posted it originally.
 
Points are fun if you like to diddle about.
Nobody likes to pull the points plate to grease the AAU bobweight slots and refit and time again.
Unless you do like doing that.
Or just snug down any new EE unit.
 
MexicoMike said:
"Points don't just fail in the middle of nowhere"
Click to expand...
...but capacitors (condensors) do! Thus disabling the points-based ignition system & magnetos too - just don't tell the titanium man (if you get that you're probably getting old too!)

BTW Ash (@ashman) do you have a crimson dynamo to go with your magneto?
 
Seriously though, my Boyer ( because the "universal fit" advance curve) is "SUSPECTED" (with my help) of causing main bearing failure.

Read post #38 and 39 in the thread below:
www.accessnorton.com

Why we call it "inspection"...(2018)

Is it the camera angle or it the oil hole in the rod being partially obstructed by the bushing shell? Very good. It's 50% obscured. I'll relieve the new shell to suit. Other rod is spot on.
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com



44898E10-CA8C-4B50-A8AE-3198F93A22FE.jpeg

C3217D70-E4E2-4385-9A44-177B2ADCB54F.jpeg

So, I changed over to a Pazon Altair. (Not without it's OWN issues)

If you don't ride your bike in anger, you'd likely not have trouble with Boyuh.
 
Last edited:
robs ss said:
...but capacitors (condensors) do! Thus disabling the points-based ignition system & magnetos too - just don't tell the titanium man (if you get that you're probably getting old too!)

BTW Ash (@ashman) do you have a crimson dynamo to go with your magneto?
Click to expand...
Rob never had any problems with Joe Hunt maggies, my old Triumph clocked up 250k km on my old JH maggie and so far just on 30k miles on my Norton JH maggie, still starts first kick every time.
But I also got 32 years out of my old Boyar EI without any problems and was still working when I replaced it with the JH.
 
I can't recall a bad capacitor ever causing an engine to quit running though 'bad' running is certainly a symptom as is difficult starting. The capacitor is there to reduce arcing at the points. Without a properly functioning cap, the arcing will cause rapid points wear and, at the same time, cause mistiming of the spark.

FWIW one bad point (NPI) about conventional ignitions is that currently-manufactured points and condensers are generally considered to be greatly inferior to those that were produced when such systems were standard. So that could be something worth looking at/researching if thinking about using/going to an OEM system.
 
jbruney said:
Points don't just fail in the middle of nowhere on a moonless night
Click to expand...
Mine did... on the Kancamagus Highway between Lincoln and Conway NH. A wire broke at one of the contacts. Same kinda failure as the old Boyer, except it just took some pliers to fix.

Perhaps the answer to this lies in the question, "why are there so many EI's available?"
 
Well, that is one of the advantages of points - any problem can usually be fixed on the side of the road rather quickly. I had points systems "fail" on several occasions but the tools necessary to fix the problem was a screwdriver and a matchbook cover (to set the point gap)! ;)

But nowadays there seems to be little interest in repairing anything on the side of the road/in a parking lot. I don't know any younger people, for example, who would change a car tire if they had a flat. They would call for assistance. I would just save hours of hassle and pull out/mount the spare. But that's "old guy" thinking...as is periodically checking the spare tire's air pressure! ;) Dealing with points/AAU is the same, I think.

It is interesting that while I wouldn't hesitate to go back to points/AAU on the Commando if my TriSpark fails, I wouldn't do it on a car. I converted several muscle car era engines to EI and never had any trouble with them. I have never understood why aftermarket car E-ignitions seem essentially bulletproof while aftermarket moto ignitions do not have that reputation...
 
IMHO the standard ignition and charging systems work fine and it costs a good bit on money to get rid of them. That said, I always install a Tri-Spark classic ignition and Tri-Spark MOSFET regulator. Here are the pros and cons of the change as I see them:

Pro: Simplified wiring
Pro: Less components to fail.
Con: If one component fails, you walk.
Pro: Better idle
Pro: Much less chance of kickback when starting
Pro: Once set, no further maintenance required.
Con: For Triumph, new coils needed (doesn't apply to Norton)
Con: Either resistor plugs or plug caps required
 
concours said:
Seriously though, my Boyer ( because the "universal fit" advance curve) is "SUSPECTED" (with my help) of causing main bearing failure.
Click to expand...
Snip........
concours said:
So, I changed over to a Pazon Altair. (Not without it's OWN issues)

If you don't ride your bike in anger, you'd likely not have trouble with Boyuh.
Click to expand...

Off topic:
Do you have a video or know of a video with good audio in which I could hear a running Norton engine that failed because of EI timing shortly after the video was shot?

And what does pinging on a Norton engine sound like?

Mine sounds like it has a nest of wrens chirping and a garden gnome using a hammer in it most of the time. Why it still runs is a mystery.

On topic for the OP:
Hanging on to nostalgic ignition technology is good for restoration projects.
 
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