Ignition Timing Setup Boyer

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On the face of it, you have two bad parts and I suggest you might want to change both of them. I sure would. But I always like to fix these things “right.”

The punch marked rotor means the hub has come loose from the body. Maybe that will work for you, but my experience has been they will keep moving around, there’s just too much force on it to rely on that “solution.” Remember, this is aluminum cast around steel and it already came loose and punch marks are far less secure. Once set accurately, the rotor moving around relative to the hub won’t change the timing but it makes setting it and re-setting it accurately at least a challenge and maybe impossible. Since you check it statically with a degree wheel but set it running with a strobe, yOu end up guessing at whether your timing setting is accurate. I’d suggest you don’t want to do that.

And the double-printed degree register may be the most entertaining testament I’ve ever seen to the quality control problems that infected the end of the British motorcycle industry. But that’s not necessarily a bad thing— that’s why a lot of us enjoy riding and working on these things! But tolerate that on a bike you own? That’s up to you!
 
Woody850
do what others are saying here and bin that rotor. I had a 4 year old three phase Lucas explode at 5000 rpm on the M4 motorway this Easter.
Good fit on the crank and no marks but I had centre punched two marks at optimum spots for easy valve clearance adjust, may have weakened the outer casting.
The rotor had completely disintegrated leaving the steel centre on the crank and the stator was in pieces. Blew the fuses I put on the reg rectifier side so no problems with the electrics.
Engine still ran OK and managed the 80 miles home on battery power only but it was carnage inside the primary.
PM me if you need a pic, but it,s real ugly.
 
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Well last night I ordered a new one with rotor key and odds and sods. What you have said alarms me enough and I think posting your carnage would be a help to understand what can go wrong.
Just a question as to the rotor keyway! Is it as pictured correct for TDC to have the key at 06:00 O-Clock and not in line with the lean of the cyclinders?
About the British production I remember reading about Tridents going to the USA had to be rebuilt on arrival due to cigarette stubs being rammed in the oil lines. Mine went to the US who knows what they thought about quality control then.
 
I have in my possession 2 (older) aftermarket 3 phase stators that the ID is small by 1mm. Almost impossible to get good rotor clearance all around.
rub, roast then blow up...?
Will machine mine to proper std size then use.
 
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Woody850 said:
Well last night I ordered a new one with rotor key and odds and sods. What you have said alarms me enough and I think posting your carnage would be a help to understand what can go wrong.
Just a question as to the rotor keyway! Is it as pictured correct for TDC to have the key at 06:00 O-Clock and not in line with the lean of the cyclinders?
About the British production I remember reading about Tridents going to the USA had to be rebuilt on arrival due to cigarette stubs being rammed in the oil lines. Mine went to the US who knows what they thought about quality control then.
Click to expand...
The fag butts were put in the Triumph engines by BSA workers. All the Trident and BSA Rocket 3 engines were built at the BSA as were the complete 1974 Tridents and all T160s.
 
The OP stated he wanted the "correct timing" for the engine. It's worth noting that the "correct" timing can be two different things - 1. the factory timing setting and; 2, the timing setting that works best for the specific engine. Odds are, they are not the same. I have seen identical factory stock engines produce their best HP with as much as 6 degrees difference in the ignition advance and neither produced their best HP with the factory setting. ;)
 
MexicoMike said:
The OP stated he wanted the "correct timing" for the engine. It's worth noting that the "correct" timing can be two different things - 1. the factory timing setting and; 2, the timing setting that works best for the specific engine. Odds are, they are not the same. I have seen identical factory stock engines produce their best HP with as much as 6 degrees difference in the ignition advance and neither produced their best HP with the factory setting. ;)
Click to expand...

This may be all very well should I be looking for the ultimate lunge, consumption or otherwise, all I am looking for is how to get near the optimum setting for mediocre riding which seems to become all the more a riddle to me.
I just don't want my motorcycle burning or blowing up in the process trying to find it. It seems a slow process of illiminination.
All I want to be able to do is turn on the strobe and know that things are correct once set.
After all I did it on a T140. Where is the problem?
 
My bet the outer part of the rotor is moving when you try to strobe it. Bin that piece of crap and buy a new one. Then try strobing it.
 
Woody850 said:
This may be all very well should I be looking for the ultimate lunge, consumption or otherwise, all I am looking for is how to get near the optimum setting for mediocre riding which seems to become all the more a riddle to me.
I just don't want my motorcycle burning or blowing up in the process trying to find it. It seems a slow process of illiminination.
All I want to be able to do is turn on the strobe and know that things are correct once set.
After all I did it on a T140. Where is the problem?
Click to expand...

Just remember there’s no such thing as a free lunge.
 
Once the rotor is in the bin then where you will get a difference with a Triumph is the camchain, this has more slack than the gear driven cam so the strobed mark is less defined.
 
dynodave said:
I have in my possession 2 (older) aftermarket 3 phase stators that the ID is small by 1mm. Almost impossible to get good rotor clearance all around.
rub, roast then blow up...?
Will machine mine to proper std size then use.
Click to expand...

Rub, roast, disintegrate. BTDT. Took out the primary chain, the inner primary cover, bent the gearbox mainshaft. Lesson learned the hard way.
 
Ignition Timing Setup Boyer
To catch up on development!
The rotor and key are replaced, no more play like the last rotor had. With great difficulties a new scala has been fitted (great variation found with the original).
The meathod of fixing the degree disk has been overworked and the timing set staticly.
The bike started first kick and runs fine although I haven't had the time to run with a strobe but took it for a run.

She ran fine and this is the colour of the plugs.
What is your opinion?
 
Returning to the fitting of the rotor, I always use a cut open coke can which has about 0.004 thou although a feeler gauge of 0.006 can be pushed in irrelevant of the flat blade on the curvature.
What is the correct distance between rotor and stator?
 
Usually I look at three things
1) color change on the ground strap at about mid point on the bend, indicating timing is close. Can't see on the pictures very well.
2) bottom two or three turns of threads are discolored, indicating plug heat range is okay. Plug on right too hot?
3) ring of carbon on bottom of threads, indicating mixture is okay. Looks okay
Might try a set of NGK 8's. I run those in my 750 and 850.
Ignition Timing Setup Boyer
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Ignition Timing Setup Boyer
Hosted on Fotki
Ignition Timing Setup Boyer
Hosted on Fotki
 
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Thank you htown great information!
I guess you are meaning BPR8ES plugs for the cooler running. I will try and get some today and report back.
 
Woody850 said:
Thank you htown great information!
I guess you are meaning BPR8ES plugs for the cooler running. I will try and get some today and report back.
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Are you running a resistor or non resisted plug cap. You don’t usually want a resistor plug with a resistor plug cap.
 
htown16 said:
Usually I look at three things
1) color change on the ground strap at about mid point on the bend, indicating timing is close. Can't see on the pictures very well.
2) bottom two or three turns of threads are discolored, indicating plug heat range is okay. Plug on right too hot?
3) ring of carbon on bottom of threads, indicating mixture is okay. Looks okay
Might try a set of NGK 8's. I run those in my 750 and 850.
Click to expand...

This is great stuff, thanks. Might I ask where you got that from?
 
I believe Comnoz originally posted those pics. With modern gas plug reading has changed since the old days of a nice tan. The last sheet briefly mentioned looking at the color ring at the base of the porcelin where it attaches to the steel body for an indication of mixture. I've found you need to dissect the plug with a dremel tool to get a view of it. If all else looks good I usually don't bother to do that. One other thing to look for is "pepper" flecks on the porcelin, little bits of carbon coming from the top of the piston indicating detonation. Either too lean or too advanced. I didn't see any indication of that on those plugs.
 
MichaelB said:
Are you running a resistor or non resisted plug cap. You don’t usually want a resistor plug with a resistor plug cap.
Click to expand...


I want amend this. Matt from CNW recommends resistor plugs and wires with his Hi-output coil.
Says it's a 'Perfect match' for the Tri Spark.
Not sure how it affects a Boyer, but I wanted to mention it.
 
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