Ignition/ starter/ carb conundrum!

I have just replaced a single Amal mk1 with a pair of Premier 32mm’s.
Stripped and cleaned them first, as discussed.
At the same time I replaced the battery and did some other mods I’ll discuss 8n a later post.
Pazon Surefire fitted 3 years ago and was perfect.
Pressed the button with great excitement .....wouldn’t start, starter seemed not to be working properly.
Kicked it, nothing at all.
On the starter it would pop every time it first turned over after tickling the carbs.

Very frustrated, at first spark seemed good. Charged new Banner battery. No different.
Checked wiring, no difference, new plugs, no difference.

Three days later, decided on a more methodical approach

Last ditch was to replace the carb. I’d resisted the urge to strip them again as despite reading people’s issues they have from new.

Finally arced the starter LT cable on the battery terminal. Motor spun perfectly but motor wouldn’t start.
Then a bang, checked for spark, nothing.

Rewired the ignition cutting out the kill switch, rewired the starter to the horn switch.

Bingo, started, ran perfectly, short ride, Amal Premiers perfect. Just need to sort tick over and slow running.
Have ordered an seperate starter switch for now.

Any advice on right hand switch cluster repair would be great otherwise I’ll buy one during the winter.

I don't understand what you have written in the last 5 sentences. ????? What switch do you want to repair. If its the ignition switch, it is easy to pull apart and clean out. You just have to be careful. Don't loose any of the guts..

Yeah, Lucas switchgear. You can take it all apart, clean it and add new dialectic grease, and it still will be non-optimal.

When i took mine apart it looked so bad i just went modern.

Make sure your ignition switch is up to it too.

kerinorton said:

I don't understand what you have written in the last 5 sentences. ????? What switch do you want to repair. If its the ignition switch, it is easy to pull apart and clean out. You just have to be careful. Don't loose any of the guts..

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Thanks Keri Norton. Have edited it, lesson learn re using preview. Predictive text and bad typing have a lot to answer to!
It’s the right handlebar switch cluster that’s knackered, both on kill switch and starter circuits.
I have cleaned and wd40’d it, makes no difference.

peter12 said:

It’s the right handlebar switch cluster that’s knackered, both on kill switch and starter circuits.

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Both the kill (white/yellow) and starter (white/red) switches are fed by the white wire. For both switches to apparently develop a fault at the same time could indicate a poor white wire connection.

+1 for above.
changing carbs unlikely to cause switch faults, but removing and refitting tank could disturb a connection.

Hi @peter12 - Les is of course correct!



May be consider stripping the switch down and treat it to a good clean.
Clean the brass contacts up inside - they can become corroded over forty or so years.
You can buy a new rebuild kit for the Lucas switches - new plastics, springs and ball bearings which will make them feel like new.

But do check that white wire that goes from the switch to the big connector under the tank.
It joins up with the same white wire that feeds the horn button on the other side, so it may be something as simple as just needing a wiggle in the connector block to seat it properly!

Is that switch kit relevant for Mk3 also? As the OP has electric start I assume he's talking late model?

Sorry mk2a with Alton, old type switchgear with red button used for starter for 3 years.
Yes, the wiring is where I thought the problem was as had disconnected it all to fit RGM headsteady. Plan to go through it all tonight.
Had 11 volts at the switchgear. Assumed it was the switch with an issue.

@EstuaryBoy no, pre-MK3 I’m afraid.

I haven’t seen rebuild kits for the later switches.
Which means if you’ve got a faulty one, you need to get creative or consider a replacement.
Andover have the Triumph one at £95

There are also a few places that have them NOS

And as an absolute last resort, Andy Gregory has the Sparx ones.

peter12 said:

Sorry mk2a with Alton, old type switchgear with red button used for starter for 3 years.

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Just as an FYI, on the RH switch cluster for '74 the red button is the kill switch. The black "spare" button is what people use when adding a starter.

Never seen a red button on a Norton. Mine are all black,.
I like the Lucas switches because they are relatively easy to clean up and get working again. Its just the effort required to make you want to take it apart and fix it. Its worth it though. I once had a problem with my right indicator. I put up with it for years. I had to switch the lever all the way then gently bring it back a tad so it would work. I got away with wof inspections for a year or so by making sure it was switched to the r/h indicator before I got to the inspection.
Fixing it made a big difference and it didn't take much effort. I was able to do it with the wiring still attached to the bike.

This configuration is how the bike was received before restoration......1974.
Upon rebulild, I changed the switch configurations and applications to my specific preferences.

maylar said:

Just as an FYI, on the RH switch cluster for '74 the red button is the kill switch. The black "spare" button is what people use when adding a starter.

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Interesting, wasn’t aware of that, doesn’t make sense as a kill button does the opposite, I’ve used mine for three years. Unless of course the buttons are in the wrong place!

You are correct about red being cut out switch normally but is easy to swap the buttons so maybe somebody did that at some point.

Norton fully supported the fact that riders may have different preferences with switch layout.

It was popular to swap left and right sides.




You can get the rebuild kits with or without the red toggle and with the later, longer paddles.
Notice that the buttons are black in these kits.



Edit: from what I can see, Triumph used the red toggle on the T140 and T160 - and was a latching engine run/engine off switch.


Of course the kill switch is the only one out of the four that is push-to-break (normally closed) - cutting the hot WY (white/yellow) that goes to the ignition.

The other three buttons are push-to-make (normally open):
Starter button makes the WR (white/red) hot when pressed
Horn button makes the PB (purple/black) hot when pressed
Headlight flasher makes the hard link to the UW (blue/white) hot when pressed

peter12 said:

Interesting, wasn’t aware of that, doesn’t make sense as a kill button does the opposite, I’ve used mine for three years. Unless of course the buttons are in the wrong place!

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Upper button (spare/starter) should be black. Lower button (kill) should be red.

Nortoniggy said:

You are correct about red being cut out switch normally but is easy to swap the buttons so maybe somebody did that at some point.

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Most likely true. I have e-start on my MKII and I've considered swapping the red button for the starter. Easy to do.

gtiller said:

You can get the rebuild kits with or without the red toggle and with the later, longer paddles.
Notice that the buttons are black in these kits.

Click to expand...

The red toggle wasn't used on Nortons (that I'm aware of). The red button AFAIK was used on the 74 MKII / MKIIA models. If you buy a new switch cluster, it'll likely be a Sparx and the buttons/levers will be the shorter style as was fitted on earlier bikes. The "correct" button kit is available from eurojamb.com -

Lineslinger said:

This configuration is how the bike was received before restoration......1974.
Upon rebulild, I changed the switch configurations and applications to my specific preferences.

Click to expand...

In that configuration, on the LH side, the red button would be the kill switch. Mine is on the right side, as shipped in 74.

No doubt the PO changed things around before I got it into my shop.
I tried a variety of configurations based on what I read on this forum and what was printed/photos from 74'.
My final configuration is not original but what I prefer. Its not a difficult task to move the buttons into a preferred position.