Guns...

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We don't have a gun problem in the US as much as we have a serious gun and violence laden culture. Everything within mainstream media seems to revolve around killing, murder, bad guys, cop shows, war machines the list is non-stop. I don't know what the obsession is over the taboo of killing here. I grew up in the late 70's and 80's and saw an interesting turn in pop culture as far as television and the early video game movement.

I don't like to preach blame it on the media but our progressive lifestyles with more single parent homes and an economy that now is more demanding of a dual income (I blame the me generation of my parents here frankly) left many kids my age (I'm 43 now) left as what many called latch key kids. We stayed at home, watched too much boob tube and had less and less contact with our parents. A kids left to his or her devices learns from their surrounding environment.

So nature and nurture comes to play here maybe. While I grew up around Andy Griffith, Speed Racer and Bugs Bunny, the stimuli of a youth in the late 80's and 90's had 120 channels of uncensored violence and video gaming that glorified high scores for "killing zombies" or steeling cars and beating people up. We are all indoctrinated with death and mayhem here. Every damn show on Major networks is a cop show or some sort or has a violence component.

So sex and violence sells and we just keep on buying it; why is everyone so damn surprised when this stuff happens? It very sad to see so many innocent lives touched by gun violence here, We have only ourselves to blame for this bull$%^t. I don't see a gun problem but an enormous mental health epidemic fueled with many other cultural dis functions stemming from poor parenting, economics etc etc. I do not blame the guns, the gun owners and manufacturers.

America has a titanic problem with accepting responsibility whether it's personal accountability at work, at home raising a family or as a society demanding higher standards for entertainment and enlightenment.

I must also admit to being a gun owner of numerous types of firearms for sporting clay, upland game and various other medium to large game. I was involved in shooting sports for competitive shootings small bore rifles and pistols and later a short stint in bench rest long range shooting up to 1000 yards. It is a great hobby and had been demonized by a few nut bags and these End of Days apocalyptic wackos.

Oddly enough the only people who prosper from these gun scares after shootings and during pre-election panics are the gun manufacturers and the stores selling them. I find it strange that the ultra right here in the country never explain that the most invasive and strongest gun control or gun ban came about after Ronald Reagan and Senator Brady were shot in the early 80's. The Brady Bill was not a bill pushed by The Democrats as much as Brady and with an overwhelming endorsement by none other than that Great Actor Ronald Reagan : :roll:
 
I don't think anyone should be allowed to own more than one of any type of gun (pistol, rifle, shotgun - one of each). The nut-case in Oregon had multiple pistols, according to press reports.

IMO, there needs to be a lot more psychiatric intervention made available for seriously deranged people. According to local TV (we're about 300 miles from Roseburg) the mother of the shooter had been pleading for psychiatric help for her son since he was about 8 years old. It was never forthcoming and the recent massacre was the result.

The lack of medical help if you don't have the right kind of insurance is a major problem in the US, compared to various European and British (which is NOT part of Europe!) systems. I feel lucky to have had insurance from a large company (Boeing) during my working life and then Medicare, with supplementary insurance at a reasonable price after I turned 65. It seems to be a good system now I'm a senior citizen.
 
That is rich, Jean, to use the fact that some guy in another classroom prudently kept his gun in his coat, as evidence that concealed carry does not deter. The poor bastard is likely going to be prosecuted for gun possession on campus by the reckless idiots who run the Umpqua Community College District. He was no vigilante, conducted himself prudently, and had no cause to act in self-defense. And, if he had charged out into the hall to do battle with that psychopath, the he likely would've been shot by the police.

This exemplary citizen is held up as evidence of the failure of concealed carry?
 
xbacksideslider said:
That is rich, Jean, to use the fact that some guy in another classroom prudently kept his gun in his coat, as evidence that concealed carry does not deter. The poor bastard is likely going to be prosecuted for gun possession on campus by the reckless idiots who run the Umpqua Community College District. He was no vigilante, conducted himself prudently, and had no cause to act in self-defense. And, if he had charged out into the hall to do battle with that psychopath, the he likely would've been shot by the police.

This exemplary citizen is held up as evidence of the failure of concealed carry?

The article I read said the armed citizen at Unpqua was a vet, who was refused to be allowed out of the lockdown. He was willing to charge in and take his chances.

One thing is for certain .... the US Lamestream media NEVER reports on an armed citizen stopping a rampage.

Re: my previous posts connecting anti-depressants to these type of rampages .... That Umpqua creep is now suspected to have been using Litium.

Since making my previous posts, I have come across this statement ..... Quote, "Virtually every major mass shooter, from Columbine killer Eric Harris, to ‘Batman’ shooter James Holmes, to Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza, was taking some form of SSRI or other pharmaceutical drug at the time of their attack. However, pharmaceutical giants who produce psychiatric drugs like Zoloft, Prozac and Paxil spend around $2.4 billion dollars a year on direct-to-consumer television advertising every year, meaning big networks are loathe to draw attention to the link between SSRIs and violence because they stand to lose millions in ad revenue." Furthermore, the same system denies deep talk therapy to these drug recipients.

Slick
 
Rusty bucket said:
My major complaint with a gun registration program is security of the data, who is privy to it and how safe that data is. I think most people would agree if they had valuables in their home they would not care to have them registered. The only time my house was ever broken into was 6 months after I added a rider policy for some items of high value, they broke in and went right for the safe, and the police? Worthless... In fact he only person of interest was me!! The first time my Grand parents house was broken into was when they asked the local police to "keep an eye out" on their property while out of town.

Besides your house, your most valued possession may be your car or your motorcycle and they are registered aren't they? Everyone could find out you have that nice Norton in the garage if the data is so unsecured and if you are like most people, your car and your bike are insured which is another information tid-bit that could attract wrong doers.

Jean
 
I have a question for guys in the US, I know there have been a number of shootings in schools, how many rampage shootings have occured in boardrooms of big corporations? If it has never happened, why is that?

Jean
 
Jean:

Most "big corporations" have secure facilities with perimeter fencing, limited access points and security guards. I worked at Boeing for the major part of my 30 years in the USA, and every facility I was in was guarded, even though the activity was commercial-airplane related. Same guard presence at NASA for the three years I wasn't with Boeing (early 1970s) , though that may have been because NASA-Langley shared the real estate with the USAF. On one occasion, a USAF gate guard actually fired his weapon at the car ahead of me because the driver didn't stop to allow his pass to be inspected - blew out a rear tire.
 
Jeandr said:
I have a question for guys in the US, I know there have been a number of shootings in schools, how many rampage shootings have occured in boardrooms of big corporations? If it has never happened, why is that?

Jean

Nobody shoots up a police station or a gun shop either. All the rampages from the so-called "workplace violence" of Ft Hood to the most recent have been "gun free zones" which are nothing but a "feel good" illusion .... like so many other illusions that are foisted on the unsuspecting or non thinking public ... like your money is safe in a bank, social security is a dependable retirement account, the police are only minutes away, the EPA will protect the environment, the FDA will ensure no harmful food or drug reaches you, the SEC will see that no one scams your investments .....

Ha! to all the illusions above and many more.

Slick
 
I have a hard time envisioning a US Army establishment like Fort Hood being a "gun-free" zone. At Umpqua, the student who was a military veteran DID rush the shooter and ended up shot in five places. Fortunately, none of his injuries were life-threatening. There's now some question whether two plain-clothes officers on scene shot the perp or whether he killed himself.
 
frankdamp said:
I have a hard time envisioning a US Army establishment like Fort Hood being a "gun-free" zone. At Umpqua, the student who was a military veteran DID rush the shooter and ended up shot in five places. Fortunately, none of his injuries were life-threatening. There's now some question whether two plain-clothes officers on scene shot the perp or whether he killed himself.

Ft Hood IS, like all US military posts (except the most sensitive ... eg nukes) and recruiting offices, A GUN FREE ZONE, then and at the present time. The Ft Hood rampage was stopped by a female city police officer.

As far as the report of the vet at Umpqua, I will research it further, but I read his interview, and he stated it as I reported. No injuries, he was not allowed to leave lock down.

If the perp at Umpqua killed himself, it lends further credence to my case .... these nut cases are suicidal, but want to take out those who they perceived mis-treated them. It also has been learned that the Umpqua perp may have been enamored of ISIS, making this a terrorist act. Umpqua is the school where one of the Americans who thwarted the French railway shooter attends ..... coincidence?

Slick

Armed Vet: http://www.ijreview.com/2015/10/436638- ... -shooting/

Your information the guy was shot is more evidence of Lamestream, liberal media bias. BTW, did you see where CNN lightened up the perp's complexion to make him appear white?
 
Jeandr said:
I have a question for guys in the US, I know there have been a number of shootings in schools, how many rampage shootings have occured in boardrooms of big corporations? If it has never happened, why is that?

Jean
Sadly you are correct Sir...
 
Jeandr said:
Rusty bucket said:
My major complaint with a gun registration program is security of the data, who is privy to it and how safe that data is. I think most people would agree if they had valuables in their home they would not care to have them registered. The only time my house was ever broken into was 6 months after I added a rider policy for some items of high value, they broke in and went right for the safe, and the police? Worthless... In fact he only person of interest was me!! The first time my Grand parents house was broken into was when they asked the local police to "keep an eye out" on their property while out of town.

Besides your house, your most valued possession may be your car or your motorcycle and they are registered aren't they? Everyone could find out you have that nice Norton in the garage if the data is so unsecured and if you are like most people, your car and your bike are insured which is another information tid-bit that could attract wrong doers.

Jean

It's much easier to steal, conceal, keep or fence a guy then a motorcycle or car... I see little to no comparison. Registration does little to keep people from driving drunk or hit and run.
 
Jeandr said:
How about this then http://www.occupydemocrats.com/bystande ... oplifters/ I'm sure everyone who has a concealed weapon is a great shot and would only hit bad guys :roll: now however, I have a reason not to go to Home Depot besides the fact they never have what I need.

Jean

A most unfortunate incident. I googled this and found about 10 articles, all of which stated the woman would likely face charges. I am sure, at the minimum, she will lose her CHL. The one article you cited was written with such a bias slant that implied this sort of thing happened on a daily basis, and you seem to have bought into that. Even the police are not justified in using lethal force for such a crime. BTW, do you remember when the DC police riddled a woman's car, killing her, for the crime of unintentionally approaching the Whitehouse .... THAT went under the radar in a hurry.

As for me, the most I will do if I witness a crime, is dial 911. CHL holders undergo 8 hours of training, most of it concerning the legal ramifications (bad things) that will happen to me for merely displaying a weapon. We are taught the use of a weapon is a LAST resort to protect LIFE. I am programmed to require the sight of blood and brains before I use a weapon.

Slick
 
Jean:

You'd better avoid Starbucks also. A few weeks ago they were actively encouraging customers to carry guns openly, in waist and shoulder holsters. It was probably a publicity gimmick and seems to have died down.
 
frankdamp said:
Jean:

You'd better avoid Starbucks also. A few weeks ago they were actively encouraging customers to carry guns openly, in waist and shoulder holsters. It was probably a publicity gimmick and seems to have died down.

No problem, I hate coffe too :mrgreen:

Jean
 
texasSlick said:
Jeandr said:
I have a question for guys in the US, I know there have been a number of shootings in schools, how many rampage shootings have occured in boardrooms of big corporations? If it has never happened, why is that?

Jean

Nobody shoots up a police station or a gun shop either. All the rampages from the so-called "workplace violence" of Ft Hood to the most recent have been "gun free zones" which are nothing but a "feel good" illusion .... like so many other illusions that are foisted on the unsuspecting or non thinking public ... like your money is safe in a bank, social security is a dependable retirement account, the police are only minutes away, the EPA will protect the environment, the FDA will ensure no harmful food or drug reaches you, the SEC will see that no one scams your investments .....

Ha! to all the illusions above and many more.

Slick


Well said, Slick.
Gun Free Zones invite these killers.

That reckless college district should be forced to pay the victims and their families. Take it straight out of the salaries of the idiots on the board or those on the academic senate who voted for it. They voted to nullify state law. This is just like the sanctuary cities.

The rebellion of the gun controllers, against the higher law provided by the state of Oregon, against concealed carry, is what got those students killed.
 
xbacksideslider said:
Nobody shoots up a police station or a gun shop either. All the rampages from the so-called "workplace violence" of Ft Hood to the most recent have been "gun free zones" which are nothing but a "feel good" illusion .... like so many other illusions that are foisted on the unsuspecting or non thinking public ... like your money is safe in a bank, social security is a dependable retirement account, the police are only minutes away, the EPA will protect the environment, the FDA will ensure no harmful food or drug reaches you, the SEC will see that no one scams your investments .....

Gun Free Zones invite these killers.

That reckless college district should be forced to pay the victims and their families. Take it straight out of the salaries of the idiots on the board or those on the academic senate who voted for it. They voted to nullify state law. This is just like the sanctuary cities.

The rebellion of the gun controllers, against the higher law provided by the state of Oregon, against concealed carry, is what got those students killed.

Errr, Canada at large is a gun free zone and so are many many countries yet the phenomenon of rampage shootings happens more in the US than anywhere, don't you think the number of guns in circulation has more to do with this fact?

Jean
 
You wil find that the dismemberment of the mental health services has a direct correlation to the increase in the shootings. The alternatives are to either drug the people ailing from severe mental illness or incarceration.

Unfortunately the medication has to be taken to be effective.

Gun violence on US TV and movies is crazy. I think in a typical primetime eventing you can easily watch a dozen murders/killings. Most sane people can filter the violence, obviously not everyone is sane.

Re-fund mental health. Eliminate gun free zones.
 
Funny how reluctant people seem to be to look at actual data. I posted data that shows that the US would have to loose 4390 more people in school shootings just to catch up to Norway in the number of deaths in proportion to population! And we lost those 227 people over a 15 year period while Norway lost their 77 people all in one day in 2011.

Total school shootings since Columbine on April 20 1999 are 227 including this last one in Oregon. (and unfortunately this number also includes the death of the shooter as well.) That is something like .0000757% of the population. Just the one shooting they had of 77 people in Norway back in 2011 is .00154% of their population.

All of the deaths to violence are bad and I am against them but using confiscation of firearms as a solution will not solve the problem. Unfortunately once done there is no way to admit the mistake and go back to how it was before.
Dan.
 
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