Greta Thunberg and the climate
- Thread starter Bernhard
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baz
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You could have central heating back then you know
You walked down to your local ironmongers , filled up your can with the finest paraffin
Lugged it all the way back ,poured it carefully in to your Aladdin paraffin heater
Give the wick a trim with the special tool
Then light it up and adjust to a nice blue flame
And only then you could position the heater in the middle of the room hence "central heating"
Cheers
robs ss
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I suspect your "vast majority" is as suspect as the (non)science behind the over-estimated effect of man's CO2 production.
"vast majority" seems to equate to "scientifically proven" - sounds great until questioned.
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Steve,
The issue is real but the message from young people is not nuanced. The messenger with an uncomfortable narrative usually finds themselves in the firing line - some 40 years ago Prince Charles delivered this climate emergency message and was branded an idiot so it isn’t just today. Young people can really surprise you and can come up with some really interesting ideas/suggestions/inventions/new ways of looking at things but as Rob SS says, the oxygen of publicity can - especially through social media -often be focussed on the wrong thing. Young people are trying to find their identity and will “try on” different personas until they are comfortable with who they are, we did the same Goth, Punk, rockers, mods.....social media now gives them a cause to believe in and a platform for their belief to be shared worldwide within seconds.
Yesterday I confiscated 8 bottles of anti bac gel as some of the children were applying it every 15 minutes or so and I heard more than once that the Coronavirus was deliberately released by the Chinese as a bio weapon - how long before that becomes a true narrative for young people?
They are often looking for a cause but don’t always examine the range of evidence available. The school has banned single use plastic bottles and installed a lot more water fountains, is it a good idea - probably, will it make a difference - no!
See Ashman’s post #14 for the real issue
SteveBorland
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This is how science actually works - you take the existing conditions and extrapolate to get a future result. Then all your peers look at your work, comment and criticise until a consensus emerges. Please do not confuse debate with wishful thinking.
Very few things are "scientifically proven", but we can produce a theory which accounts for the behaviour of a system and predicts the future behaviour of the system.
Look at it in another way - if we follow thorough with the reduction of greenhouse gas emission etc. and the climate theory is wrong, we end up with a cleaner world and new technology. If we don't do anything, and the theory is correct, the next many generations are going to have enormous problems.
Fast Eddie
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The problem I have with how we discuss / debate today is that, frankly, we don’t!
It seems that modern platforms only serve to create a binary condition with most debates.
The climate issue is very typical; you’re either a believer in imminent total global catastrophe... or a complete denier. You’re either green... or a polluter. Good... evil. Black... white. Etc.
The problem is that very few (if any?) real issues are actually that simple.
Not to sound ageist, but younger people are particularly susceptible to this, I was, we nearly all were. Think mods and rockers... pitched battles on the beaches over nothing more than lifestyle preferences in music and fashion !! I hear it in my kids when they say “but that’s wrong” and I’ll say “yes it is, but so is the opposite point of view to some”.
The real problem with the climate issue is that proper debate about the balance between quality of modern life, and how to support this in a sustainable way as the worlds economies develop, and what to do at what speed, is being lost in this unsolvable situation of “Do everything now or we all die” vs “It’s all false, carry on”.
In my uneducated opinion, BOTH of those are wrong. The truth and the real need for action is somewhere in the middle. And whilst I’m sure people are looking at this, it doesn’t seem to be in focus for us masses or our political leaders ...
It seems that modern platforms only serve to create a binary condition with most debates.
The climate issue is very typical; you’re either a believer in imminent total global catastrophe... or a complete denier. You’re either green... or a polluter. Good... evil. Black... white. Etc.
The problem is that very few (if any?) real issues are actually that simple.
Not to sound ageist, but younger people are particularly susceptible to this, I was, we nearly all were. Think mods and rockers... pitched battles on the beaches over nothing more than lifestyle preferences in music and fashion !! I hear it in my kids when they say “but that’s wrong” and I’ll say “yes it is, but so is the opposite point of view to some”.
The real problem with the climate issue is that proper debate about the balance between quality of modern life, and how to support this in a sustainable way as the worlds economies develop, and what to do at what speed, is being lost in this unsolvable situation of “Do everything now or we all die” vs “It’s all false, carry on”.
In my uneducated opinion, BOTH of those are wrong. The truth and the real need for action is somewhere in the middle. And whilst I’m sure people are looking at this, it doesn’t seem to be in focus for us masses or our political leaders ...
You contributed to the mess, least you could do is discontinue your destructive ways.
What’s with you Texans? Twenty years ago I went to Houston for a CART race. The air pollution was unbelievable. Seems like some Texans have a death wish.
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We ate the bark off the trees and we LIKED it! I walked 5 miles back and forth to school each day, uphill both ways!
Seriously, guys, oceanside cities all over the world are preparing for rising waters. It's not a myth.
As for Ms. Greta, she's emphasizing that youth are being, and have always been handed a shit sandwich by the older generation and I don't blame her for complaining about the taste. We, as adults, could have, and should have done more and done better. Despite all the reactionaries who refuse to believe anything they didn't think up themselves, we breathe cleaner air and drink cleaner water due to people like Greta Thunberg raising awareness to our gross stupidity.
Seriously, guys, oceanside cities all over the world are preparing for rising waters. It's not a myth.
As for Ms. Greta, she's emphasizing that youth are being, and have always been handed a shit sandwich by the older generation and I don't blame her for complaining about the taste. We, as adults, could have, and should have done more and done better. Despite all the reactionaries who refuse to believe anything they didn't think up themselves, we breathe cleaner air and drink cleaner water due to people like Greta Thunberg raising awareness to our gross stupidity.
Hmm. . . . You forget, 1 gallon of paraffin equals 1 gallon of water, which is great for condensing on your inside window, rotting your wooden window frame, not to mention the 'orrible smell in the air. . . . . I used one in a 10x 8 ft shed, the smell of paraffin, it was overpowering.
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The issue with Greta is more prosaic. Why does she get so much publicicty in the worlds media? I s it really the case she sneezes and Fossil fuel industry execs catch a cold , or do they jump up and down with the raging hots, and if so why? And who else joins in ? We only ever see the tip of the political iceberg...
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Science is not consensus, it must be based on facts and not opinion (Eugenics is the last example of consensus driving the wrong theory), tectonic plate theory was correct before it became accepted, it took all the old opponents who refused to look at the data to die before it became accepted.
The models for IPCC Climate change are the extrapolation, the models have as their basis that an increase in CO2 will warm the earth but then add on that other factors amplify this increase by a factor, this is called climate sensitivity.
The real data when compared to the modelled data shows that this climate sensitivity is too high, the real data is just about matching the lowest modelled temperature data.
If the climate sensitivity is 1.0 then only CO2 drives the temperature increase, values higher than 1.0 add other factors. Based on the real measured increase in temperature to date a climate sensitivity of 1.0 is most likely.
All the hype is based on climate sensitivities of 2 or higher, but the data does not support 2.0 but the 2.0+ models are the ones promoted.
The models for IPCC Climate change are the extrapolation, the models have as their basis that an increase in CO2 will warm the earth but then add on that other factors amplify this increase by a factor, this is called climate sensitivity.
The real data when compared to the modelled data shows that this climate sensitivity is too high, the real data is just about matching the lowest modelled temperature data.
If the climate sensitivity is 1.0 then only CO2 drives the temperature increase, values higher than 1.0 add other factors. Based on the real measured increase in temperature to date a climate sensitivity of 1.0 is most likely.
All the hype is based on climate sensitivities of 2 or higher, but the data does not support 2.0 but the 2.0+ models are the ones promoted.
Science is not consensus, it must be based on facts and not opinion (Eugenics is the last example of consensus driving the wrong theory), tectonic plate theory was correct before it became accepted, it took all the old opponents who refused to look at the data to die before it became accepted.
The models for IPCC Climate change are the extrapolation, the models have as their basis that an increase in CO2 will warm the earth but then add on that other factors amplify this increase by a factor, this is called climate sensitivity.
The real data when compared to the modelled data shows that this climate sensitivity is too high, the real data is just about matching the lowest modelled temperature data.
If the climate sensitivity is 1.0 then only CO2 drives the temperature increase, values higher than 1.0 add other factors. Based on the real measured increase in temperature to date a climate sensitivity of 1.0 is most likely.
All the hype is based on climate sensitivities of 2 or higher, but the data does not support 2.0 but the 2.0+ models are the ones promoted.
Whatever your chart proves I do not have the foggiest. I do know the ice caps are disappearing and some streets in Miami Beach flood at high tide through the storm sewers.
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grandpaul
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I've never "contributed to the mess". We were taught to keep our house clean, and keep our trash in our vehicle till we got to a trash can. We were taught properly, and it stuck.
I'm a Texan, NOT a Houstonian. I keep my distance from that mess. We Texans are cleaner than average, EXCEPT in the typical democrat/liberal controlled ratholes.
The Mexicans in Laredo gave the place a bad look; they got plastic bags banned. You'd go to the mall and see 1/2 the license plates were from Mexico. They buy a carload of crap UNWRAP IT IN THE PARKING LOT, and throw ALL of the trash RIGHT THERE, where the wind tossed it into the drainage culvert along I-35. hey had to put up catch fences.
IT'S NOT "We Texans", so you can get off that crap. I typically stay away from stuff that gets political on Brit/Bike forums, but I'm not sitting still for this.
grandpaul
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Greta Thunberg is a highly paid ACTRESS who flies in private jets and enjoys all the typical luxuries that her hypocritical liberal indoctrinating parents enjoy, being tied to Socialists, etc. You can't make this stuff up, it's ABSURD in the extreme. She "cares" about the climate and environment, as much as I care about Stuart Garner's delicate situation.
SteveBorland
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As I said, there are very few scientific facts. Consensus in the scientific community is not a matter of opinion, it's a qualified peer discussion to reach an agreement about a subject. Based on best current knowledge, scientific consensus is that man-made climate change is happening and the results if nothing is done will be dramatic.
If someone refuses to believe this, then I would suggest that they invest heavily in waterfront property
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If someone refuses to believe this, then I would suggest that they invest heavily in waterfront property
You mean like Obama and his doorstep 1m to 3M above the sea.
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/...-3-10-feet-above-sea-level-daniel-greenfield/
