Garmin Zumo GPS vs Tomtom

worntorn

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My friends and I still use GPS when out on tour as cellphones don't work in a great many areas.
I use the GPS to show the way but also to locate fuel, restaurants and lodging.
It's great to have a device which will look ahead and tell you if there is fuel available in the next little town, which might be 100 miles away where your gas supply will be depleted.
My old Tomtom Rider 2 was excellent for this, it never failed to find fuel, or anything else which we needed.
If it said there was no fuel there, better make other plans.
I recently purchased a new TomTom 550. It's a pretty jazzed up version of the Rider 2, but it retains all of that Rider 2 info (updated of course) and adds to it.

Ive toured with other riders who use Garmin Zumo GPS units and we found that the Garmin did not recognize or have any data on small towns. I'm not sure where the cutoff might be, maybe a population of 500 and under.
Because we like old backroads and highways the Garmin was pretty much useless as it couldn't even find these little towns and therefore couldnt tell us whether there was fuel ahead, or a restaurant etc.
I've observed this difference in operation with 3 different Garmin GPS units, one top of the line Zumo 660, one new Zumo 595 and one Garmin car GPS fitted on a bike.
They all seemed to have the same workings and showed the same complete void of info on small towns.
Anyone else notice this ?

Recent case in point, we were headed for a beautiful lonely old highway in Montana.
The map showed a little town called Ovando, right about where we would need fuel. There'
weren't any other towns for many miles, so if we were going to ride this highway it would be essential to know there was fuel at Ovando. The Zumo couldn't even find Ovando. Ovando has a population of just 71, but TomTom located it and said there was 1 gas station and two restaurants there, The Stray Bullet Cafe and Trixie's Antler Saloon . Just what we needed.
As always with that unit, the info turned out to be correct. As pre-planned by TomTom, we fueled up the bikes at the Blackfoot Cenex then had lunch at the Stray Bullet cafe. It was excellent and so was the ride down that old highway.

Glen
 
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During Spring if ‘17 I did cross country ride ... first day GPS , map displayed in tankbag , phone in pocket .... second day ,just sharpie notes with exit #’s etc. ... kept phone in pocket until needed gas , coffee ,food or lodging .... only time GPS was out after that first day was to monitor my speed ..... I used maps and GPS in hotel room to make my sharpie notes before bedtime each night .... a buddy did same ride last spring and used weather apps on phone to avoid bad weather , he ended up putting fewer kms on his bike but did stay dry .... me I was in the rain, snow and high winds on several occasions .....
 
The phones work well as a GPS etc in built up areas and that had me debating the purchase of a new Motorcycle GPS, as they are expensive. We really avoid the built up areas tho, which makes the phones of little use.
On a trip last year a buddy tried using his phone in a waterproof case, but it lost signal about 2 hours into a 7 day trip and only picked it up again here and there when it wasn't really needed.
So until cellphone coverage is everywhere, we still need the GPS here in the west.
 
Yes , I did notice some areas with no coverage, particularly in North Ontario ( beautiful country) ... for the most part I stayed off TransCanada and followed the older two lanes....I do like paper maps though , always nice to have the digital backup for gas and services ... my old GPS works great as a speedo and that’s ‘bout all .... my brother uses a SAT phone which is kinda cool , always has service like the GPS ... we are headed for one device for all apps , quickly , so he say ....
 
My favourite thing is to open up the paper map at the hotel / motel in the evening and plan a route that is away from freeways but has just enough civilization to meet our needs.
Then I program the GPS with that route and it works like magic the next day.
On road I Mostly just listen to the audio instructions that are recieved via Bluetooth and Cardo Scala headset. The screen is also useful, but can be ignored in a pinch.
This is especially helpful when getting thru a big Town or city in heavy traffic. You can keep eyes on the road and follow the audio instructions.
I did this first time in Manchester Uk in 2007.
Picked up the new GPS the day before, read the 2 page quick start menu then proceeded diagonally across Manchester , riding 2 up with luggage. This wasw the first time ever riding or driving on the left side for me. I believe Manchester is the 6 th largest city in the UK, about half a million people, so it's busy.
Some of those roundabouts have 5 lanes!
End up in the wrong lane and you go to the wrong place.
The GPS worked flawlessly, took us right to the B&B we were looking for.
When UK Tim said " You have reached your destination" I could hardly believe the capability.

Now we take that for granted.

Glen
 
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Yes , invaluable in that type of situation , I’m sorry I have no info to add to your original post , surely some one will, soon .... my preplaned ride through Montreal on my big ride of ‘17 turned out okay , except, I arrived during evening rush , glad I had notes as it was bumper to bumper , wheel to wheel for over an hour , speeds ranged from 0 to +110kph .... really didn’t enjoy that type of riding .... saw others who appeared to be having fun , not me ....just wanted to be through it !
 
I bought a Garmin last year.

A friend recently bought a Tom-Tom.

The Tom-Tom is FAR MORE intuitive to programme, especially if you're trying to create custom routes etc.

If anyone is looking to buy a low use, one owner, less than one year old Garmin with European and US map... let me know!
 
worntorn said:
My friends and I still use GPS when out on tour as cellphones don't work in a great many areas.
I use the GPS to show the way but also to locate fuel, restaurants and lodging.
It's great to have a device which will look ahead and tell you if there is fuel available in the next little town, which might be 100 miles away where your gas supply will be depleted.
My old Tomtom Rider 2 was excellent for this, it never failed to find fuel, or anything else which we needed.
If it said there was no fuel there, better make other plans.
I recently purchased a new TomTom 550. It's a pretty jazzed up version of the Rider 2, but it retains all of that Rider 2 info (updated of course) and adds to it.

Ive toured with other riders who use Garmin Zumo GPS units and we found that the Garmin did not recognize or have any data on small towns. I'm not sure where the cutoff might be, maybe a population of 500 and under.
Because we like old backroads and highways the Garmin was pretty much useless as it couldn't even find these little towns and therefore couldnt tell us whether there was fuel ahead, or a restaurant etc.
I've observed this difference in operation with 3 different Garmin GPS units, one top of the line Zumo 660, one new Zumo 595 and one Garmin car GPS fitted on a bike.
They all seemed to have the same workings and showed the same complete void of info on small towns.
Anyone else notice this ?

Recent case in point, we were headed for a beautiful lonely old highway in Montana.
The map showed a little town called Ovando, right about where we would need fuel. There'
weren't any other towns for many miles, so if we were going to ride this highway it would be essential to know there was fuel at Ovando. The Zumo couldn't even find Ovando. Ovando has a population of just 71, but TomTom located it and said there was 1 gas station and two restaurants there, The Stray Bullet Cafe and Trixie's Antler Saloon . Just what we needed.
As always with that unit, the info turned out to be correct. As pre-planned by TomTom, we fueled up the bikes at the Blackfoot Cenex then had lunch at the Stray Bullet cafe. It was excellent and so was the ride down that old highway.

Glen
Click to expand...

I used to work on in-car sat nav systems in the early to mid-2000's for a company called Navman. Historically, we had a strong position in marine navigation, fish finders and branched out into cars and fleet tracking.

We contracted a small company to do a Pocket PC (remember them - like a Palm Pilot) version of our software. That company was Tom Tom, who werent into the sat nav market yet - they were just software makers. Unfortunately, whoever wrote the contract either didnt put in a non-compete clause, or it was entirely toothless. Navman is dead now, and TomTom is the #1.

All of the sat nav manufacturers used to buy their map data for the major markets (such as the US, Western Europe) from the same two big map providers: TeleAtlas (Dutch) and Navteq (USA). Smaller markets, like NZ, are serviced by smaller providers. In 2008 TomTom bought TeleAtlas. Now, Google is also a major provider after getting off of TeleAtlas years ago, after the TomTom acquisition I think. Garmin used to use Navteq, and I assume they still do given the other choices only bolster the competition through the licensing fees.

Map data size is huge. Back when I was working on these systems, they used to come on a dozen or so DVDs. The data is raw, and the manufacturers have to process it to work with their applications and navigation algorithms. It is always a trade off to figure out what data to use, and the licensing costs to use it.

For example, take POIs (like restaurants and gas stations). There are different tiers of the POI sets - some are free, then you can buy the next teir, and the one above that. The more you pay, say $1 per manufactured unit for premier set, the more/better quality (brand) data you get - complete with branded icons, etc.

The same is true of the map data itself - the more you pay the greater the fidelity and the more features you get, like speed limits, small towns in the middle of nowhere, traffic data, etc.

And all of that takes memory and disc space, so you need to build a more expensive unit to handle it.

And the navigation algorithms are quite different. We used to pride ourselves on Navman's navigation engine, and we were consistently better (in usability studies) than all of our competitors: Magellan, TomTom, and Garmin. Though, Garmin at the time had very good navigation.

Who do you think gets a better deal on map data, Tom Tom devices who buy from themselves, or Garmin (who really specialize in aeronautical navigation) who buy their data from Navteq?
 
Garmin units may need their databases upgraded with most current maps and I believe this is sometimes a paid download. TomTom used/maybe still is User-base updateable...meaning owners contribute map/POI updates to their online database which is then available to all owners (used to be free?).

As for cell phone mapping, there are apps that have complete regional map databases which do not require live cell data to operate. I've got one such app on my old Blackberry phone (BBOS10) called "Mimeo Don't Panic". Google Maps, the most popular mapping app for phone, does require live data connection. My friend has the Rever motorcycle routing app running on his Android phone and has used it just fine in remote areas.
 
It would be interesting to see if that app can locate the Stray Bullet Cafe in Ovando Mt from an area without cell service.
My Buddy had some sort of mapping App on his phone, but it wasn't doing much for us once the cell service was lost.

If it can find places like that, and the cell app can relay audio instructions to a headset via Bluetooth connection, then the GPS unit is redundant.
At least until it rains!
He had a waterproof case and mount but it leaked, that was the other finding that sent me back to the GPS.

Glen
 
worntorn said:
It would be interesting to see if that app can locate the Stray Bullet Cafe in Ovando Mt from an area without cell service.
My Buddy had some sort of mapping App on his phone, but it wasn't doing much for us once the cell service was lost.

If it can find places like that, and the cell app can relay audio instructions to a headset via Bluetooth connection, then the GPS unit is redundant.
At least until it rains!
He had a waterproof case and mount but it leaked, that was the other finding that sent me back to the GPS.

Glen
Click to expand...
Devices can do location provisioning a couple of ways
  1. using the on-board GPS chip These devices dont need a network connection to function correctly.
  2. using the on-board GPS chip along with Assisted GPS (A-GPS), which augments satellite positions by using cell tower data to enhance quality and precision when in poor satellite signal conditions (urban canyons, for example, where there is a lot of signal "bounce" off of high rise buildings). These devices usually dont need a network connection to function correctly.
  3. Using only A-GPS for devices with no on-board GPS chips - which is then wholly dependent on a network connection.

Phones that require a data connection for navigation do so for one of two reasons:
  1. because all of the map data is stored on the server, so the route is calculated on the server and is simply returned to the device to track position along the route. Any deviations from the route would also need connection to the server to recalculate.
  2. They dont have a GPS chip
 
I should add, GPS devices need to see the sky to work - since they require a line of sight satellite signal.

So, if your device can find its position and calculate a route while, say, in a closed garage - it uses A-GPS. If it cant, it doesn't.

Finding your way AFTER you have acquired a satellite signal - like when you enter a tunnel - does not mean you necessarily have A-GPS. You can do the same thing with an accelerometer, or software emulation (guessing based on velocity at time of signal loss).

And map data providers charge more when you have more sensors on the device, and charge more when you use more sophisticated GPS chip sets. So, a device with GPS chip-x + accelerometer + A-GPS will cost more to license than GPS chip-x + accelerometer which will cost more than GPS chip-x which will cost more than GPS chip-y.
 
worntorn said:
My friends and I still use GPS when out on tour as cellphones don't work in a great many areas.
....I recently purchased a new TomTom 550. It's a pretty jazzed up version of the Rider 2, but it retains all of that Rider 2 info (updated of course) and adds to it.

Glen
Click to expand...

so where did you buy the tomtom550? my usual sources in calgary don't carry tomtom. they did at one time but not now.
 
Fortnine has them for a pretty fair price.
I bought directly from TomTom.
They have been emailing me deals at $399 US for quite some time and I nearly went for it , however the old Rider2 was still working fine.
About a month ago Tomtom emailed to say they will no longer support my old TomTom Rider ( maps) but have no fear, the 550 with its larger screen and zillion features could be mine for just $299.US
I think I paid $700 US for the Rider2 in 07, so $299 for the fancy unit 12 years later seemed pretty fair. The $299 unit does not come with audio headset where the Rider 2 did come with a high grade ( at the time) Cardo Scala headset. It does come with lifetime free maps, which the Rider2 did not. I paid $75 for the latest Rider 2 NA map about two years ago. It is a good map, it seems to have everything the new unit has on its map, speed limits, red light cameras etc.

The new unit does pair up with old Cardo Scala, but after pairing it stated on screen that the old headset was " low quality"
Nonetheless,it's doing the job nicely.

On the money front, I learned that BMW charges $1200 for a rebranded Garmin gps and it still cant find Ovando Mt. or Mallard Drive in Parksville BC.

Glen
 
Re; "On the money front, I learned that BMW charges $1200 for a rebranded Garmin gps and it still cant find Ovando Mt. or Mallard Drive in Parksville BC."
Because they don't want you to go there!
 
worntorn said:
My friends and I still use GPS when out on tour as cellphones don't work in a great many areas.
I use the GPS to show the way but also to locate fuel, restaurants and lodging.
It's great to have a device which will look ahead and tell you if there is fuel available in

Ive toured with other riders who use Garmin Zumo GPS units and we found that the Garmin did not recognize or have any data on small towns. I'm not sure where the cutoff might be, maybe a population of 500 and under.
Because we like old backroads and highways the Garmin was pretty much useless as it couldn't even find these little towns and therefore couldnt tell us whether there was fuel ahead, or a restaurant etc.
I've observed this difference in operation with 3 different Garmin GPS units, one top of the line Zumo 660, one new Zumo 595 and one Garmin car GPS fitted on a bike.
They all seemed to have the same workings and showed the same complete void of info on small towns.
Anyone else notice this ?

Recent case in point, we were headed for a beautiful lonely old highway in Montana.
The map showed a little town called Ovando, right about where we would need fuel. There'
weren't any other towns for many miles, so if we were going to ride this highway it would be essential to know there was fuel at Ovando. The Zumo couldn't even find Ovando
Garmin Zumo GPS vs Tomtom

Garmin Zumo GPS vs Tomtom



Glen

No problem with my 396
Pete
Click to expand...
 
Interesting!
Does it find fuel in Ovando as well?

How about 1399 Mallard Road, Qualicom, BC, Canada.
That was one that the 660 didn't recognize.

Glen
 
The 396 looks to be a current model whereas the 660 was from a few years ago, so map info must have improved.

The 660 found a route for the 1399 Mallard address, but it was miles away from the correct location.
I did not get the model number from the Garmin we were using last year. This is the unit that didn't recognize Ovando or other little towns.
It belongs to a riding friend, next time I see him I'll get more info on it.
I believe it is a few years old.

Glen
 
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worntorn said:
The 396 looks to be a current model whereas the 660 was from a few years ago, so map info must have improved.

The 660 found a route for the 1399 Mallard address, but it was miles away from the correct location.
I did not get the model number from the Garmin we were using last year. This is the unit that didn't recognize Ovando or other little towns.
It belongs to a riding friend, next time I see him I'll get more info on it.
I believe it is a few years old.

Glen
Click to expand...

Your buddy just might need to upgrade his maps. He should have that option. Link it to a PC and download the program from Garmin and follow the instructions. Mine actually has WiFi so I can upgrade anytime I chose as long as I am within a WiFi signal or I can use my laptop. Using the “Shape” option allows the user to lay out routes anyway they want, overriding the units presets.
Pete
 
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