Fuel Injected Commando datalogging session

Here is the setup for the upcoming datalogging session. Jim

[video]http://youtu.be/ltAF2gAa3Uc[/video]

That was great to watch, you should have your own show.
Looking forward to blast off.

Fascinating Commando and nest and nest keeper. Wonderful packaging job routing and mounting I'll take some clues form. Hardly any room left for a decent stereo though.

Ta.

Bloody hell!! Doctor Frankensteins lab. wasn't that complicated.
Jim, ever thought of working for NASA?

NASA would be fortunate. We are not worthy. :!:

needing said:

Excellent overview!
What / where is the ECU from?

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The ECU is my own. It is designed around a custom Megasquirt module. It runs on firmware developed for the Norton and is tuned with TunerStudio. Jim

OK, you've got us on the edge of our chairs waiting for ignition and blast-off. Please don't make us wait too long as we're drooling to hear that engine warm up and do some work. Be kind to it, but at the same time we want to hear it sing it's comfortable flatland highway song at 75 mph pulling against reasonable resistance as well as making some real noise as it bellers (that's not a real word but I like it anyway) up a long Rocky Mountain grade at 2/3 or more throttle at full song.

Jim,
what is the longest stroke a Norton engine can take without major modifications to the block? I realize they already have a long stroke but I like TORQUE!! (And, I don't own very many 850 parts.) My thinking is about the possibility of building an 850 with 750 jugs which would involve a stoke of 101.54mm.
Dan

Jim,

I see you fixed the power supply

Love the breather hose to the swing arm pivot...what a great idea!

Dennis

motorson said:

Jim,
what is the longest stroke a Norton engine can take without major modifications to the block? I realize they already have a long stroke but I like TORQUE!! (And, I don't own very many 850 parts.) My thinking is about the possibility of building an 850 with 750 jugs which would involve a stoke of 101.54mm.
Dan

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Actually there is no increase in torque from an increased stroke beyond the increase you get by increasing the displacement.
Increasing displacement always increases torque. Making the bore larger increases the pressure pushing on the rod and increasing the stroke increases the leverage ration of the rod. Both increases have exactly the same effect.

There is one advantage to increasing the stroke on an engine with limited breathing/valve area. An increase in stroke will pump more air through the same size valve due to the slower draw of a small piston long stroke combination.

Increasing displacement by increasing the bore means more valve area will be needed to fill the chamber at the same RPM. Of course a larger bore means there will be more room for bigger valves so if you want max horsepower a bigger bore with larger valves is the way to go. There is however a limit to valve area on even the best big valve Norton head.

So in the end an increase in stroke is an easier way to increase power when maximum high rpm power is not the aim.

For biggest mid range torque improvements an increase in displacement is king -no matter whether the additional displacement is made with bore or stroke. Jim

Longest stroke sold so far is 93mm used to create 1007 cc's and needs some case relieving. IIRC M.A.P. Cycle in Fla. was 1st to offer to public. Jim showed us friction is the main boogaboo to long strokes though before that point more cubes are more fun at rpm it can fill effectively. Take your time Jim so not to rush us off edges of our seats.

Jim, This is an amazing setup, both on the bike and the dyno. The amount of hours you must have spent to engineer this is mind boggling. Many thanks and much respect! Looking forward to seeing more. Chris

Can't wait to see this set up run, and I thought waiting for Christmas was hard. I missed how the fuel gets into the backbone Jim, is it just gravity feed from the tank? Mark

marksterrtt said:

Can't wait to see this set up run, and I thought waiting for Christmas was hard. I missed how the fuel gets into the backbone Jim, is it just gravity feed from the tank? Mark

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There is vacuum operated pump that circulates the fuel between the backbone tube and the fuel tank.
Originally I tried gravity feed but the fuel in the backbone got too hot from engine heat and the high pressure pump would vaporlock. Jim

Jim,

Is the bung at the muffler plugged when your running the bike normally?

Wondering about the O2 sensor feeding data to the fuel injection. We had this discussion before, that seems quite far from the source. Is it there because that is the junction of what looks to be a 2 into 1 into 2 exhaust?

Thanks,

Dennis

dennisgb said:

Jim,

Is the bung at the muffler plugged when your running the bike normally?

Wondering about the O2 sensor feeding data to the fuel injection. We had this discussion before, that seems quite far from the source. Is it there because that is the junction of what looks to be a 2 into 1 into 2 exhaust?

Thanks,

Dennis

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The O2 sensor in the exhaust is there all the time. It supplies feedback for mixture correction full time. It is behind the junction of the two headpipes so it sees an average mixture for both cylinders.

Since it is a wideband sensor it must run at a controlled temperature. It has a heater to keep it warm but if it is too close to the cylinder it will get too hot and cause an error. Jim

comnoz said:

The O2 sensor in the exhaust is there all the time. It supplies feedback for mixture correction full time. It is behind the junction of the two headpipes so it sees an average mixture for both cylinders.

Since it is a wideband sensor it must run at a controlled temperature. It has a heater to keep it warm but if it is too close to the cylinder it will get too hot and cause an error. Jim

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Ah yes...it's a little different than the O2 sensors that come with the gauge kits that we talked about before. The heater in the sensor must be the current drain that makes the Fuel Injection system a bit difficult on a Norton. I'm guessing this is why you have such a big alternator and battery pack on this bike.

dennisgb said:

comnoz said:

The O2 sensor in the exhaust is there all the time. It supplies feedback for mixture correction full time. It is behind the junction of the two headpipes so it sees an average mixture for both cylinders.

Since it is a wideband sensor it must run at a controlled temperature. It has a heater to keep it warm but if it is too close to the cylinder it will get too hot and cause an error. Jim

Click to expand...

Ah yes...it's a little different than the O2 sensors that come with the gauge kits that we talked about before. The heater in the sensor must be the current drain that makes the Fuel Injection system a bit difficult on a Norton. I'm guessing this is why you have such a big alternator and battery pack on this bike.

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The big alternator was originally to power the datalogging equipment that I had onboard when I was originally developing the fuel injection.
The wideband sensor does need around 6 amps to operate which is borderline with a standard alternator if you want a fuel pump and a headlight also.
Now the big alternator comes in handy for 3 HID headlights and some warm electrics. Jim

comnoz said:

dennisgb said:

The big alternator was originally to power the datalogging equipment that I had onboard when I was originally developing the fuel injection. The wideband sensor does need around 6 amps to operate which is borderline with a standard alternator if you want a fuel pump and a headlight also.
Now the big alternator comes in handy for 3 HID headlights and some warm electrics. Jim

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You have hand warmers on a Norton? Maybe the only one in the world.