Front disc spoke question

Stillreel · Nov 23, 2011

Always the adventurous mechanic, I decided to give wheel lacing a try. The rim and spokes were purchased from Walridge so I know these guys sent me the right stuff. But I've found that the inside right (disc side spokes) needed a bit of persuasion in order to get them in to their corresponding holes. Not a lot by any means, not even 1/8" but the other spokes fell into to place almost centre hole. It looks to me as though the angle at the head end wasn't quite enough. These are the smaller diameter SS spokes with the lesser of the two spoke head angles. (4 different types of spokes for the front disc and again, the others all fit perfectly.)

Obviously a bowed spoke is no good but I'm wondering if anyone else encountered the same issue and if a liitle pressure applied during assembly is acceptable.

Thanks in advance,

BC
71 Commando
68 TR6 P

grandpaul · Nov 23, 2011

The difference in the profile of different spokes at the root end is almost imperceptible, yet can make all the difference between right and wrong. Aligning the hub to it's proper offset can also make all the difference in whether the right spokes line up correctly, or whether they seem to bend or bind...

L.A.B. · Nov 23, 2011

Stillreel said:
But I've found that the inside right (disc side spokes) needed a bit of persuasion in order to get them in to their corresponding holes.

These are the smaller diameter SS spokes with the lesser of the two spoke head angles. (4 different types of spokes for the front disc and again, the others all fit perfectly.)

According to the factory manual, both sets of spokes on the disc side were 8 SWG. The spokes on the side opposite the disc side were thinner 9 SWG?

Stillreel · Nov 23, 2011

L.A.B. said:
According to the factory manual, both sets of spokes on the disc side were 8 SWG. The spokes on the side opposite the disc side were thinner 9 SWG?

That's odd. According to the parts manual (Old Britts site), the spoke nipple, disc side (062595) are the smaller outside diameter at 0.302" vs opposite side at 0.303". Am I reading this wrong?

I think I'll take another swing at it tomorrow and try the thicker spokes on the disc side.

L.A.B. · Nov 23, 2011

Stillreel said:
That's odd. According to the parts manual (Old Britts site), the spoke nipple, disc side (062595) are the smaller outside diameter at 0.302" vs opposite side at 0.303". Am I reading this wrong?

Both nipples I think, should be approximately 0.300", so I don't understand why Old Britts have them listed as 0.302" and 0.303"?
http://www.buchananspokes.net/nipples/index.asp

As far as I can tell, the 062595 nipples are supposed to be 8 SWG thread x 0.300" and 063207 are 9 SWG thread x .300"

http://www.britcycle.com/Download/InventoryListV2.txt

06-2595 nipple,spoke,8g.x.300

06-3207 USE 37-7034
37-7034 nipple,spoke,9g.x.300

Hobot · Nov 23, 2011

I don't think anyone makes an aftermarket rim drilled to the extreme angles
required for spokes not to be in bending bind once fully tured and nipped up. Its a non issue other than close up visual.

Hobot · Nov 23, 2011

I don't think anyone makes an aftermarket rim drilled to the extreme angles
required for spokes not to be in bending bind once fully tured and nipped up. Its a non issue other than close up visual. Oh yeah you lace up till almost full tensioned the rotor side spokes before even thinking about tigthening the opposite pulling 2 spoke rows.

Torontonian · Nov 23, 2011

Yes,done it myself same kit, thought the same way until progressive tightening of spokes until the Ureka moment with the offset factor. Offset is big and rather alarming to realize. Then after the AHA realization it made sense. It's true, It's an art and rewarding.

Hobot · Nov 23, 2011

In case I was mis- understood, If an Al rim and likely steel one's too, no one has equipment to drill the holes to the angles as required on the Norton disc brake hub so even *after* the whole thing is nipped up perfect aligned the spokes will be in a bent bind leaving the rim. A past Norton shop owner wheel builder filled me in on this to save my sanity and tantrums. Buchann's can not supply Al rim that avoids this.
And yes those come marked which side is rotor side.

madass140 · Nov 23, 2011

I drill my own rims for these, I dont supply rims for these, I've drilled more than a dozen and laced them up my self and sold the complete wheels, in pairs.
but thats correct I dont know any one and I've tried to get rim manufacturers to do them, but no luck. now and then I do a pair of wheels for sale.

Stillreel · Dec 4, 2011

Re: Front disc spoke question REVISITED!!

I've now tried every possible configuration with the same result: the holes line up perfectly with the spokes with thicker spokes on the disc side, sharper angled spokes wrapping around the hub toward the centre holes ... but I consistantly get every forth spoke sitting 1/4" proud of the rim when tightening up the job. I bought the 18" spoke kit and 18" rim from Walridge but I'm wondering if they have set me the wrong spokes. Please take a look at the images and let me know your thoughts.

madass140 · Dec 4, 2011

On the original rim, the spokes on one side of the rim go to the opposite side of the hub, this is very unusual , its to do with the big offset, all aftermarket rims as far as I know of are not laced this way, because it seems no one can press the dimples deep enough with such a big side angle, I drill and lace mine up the normal way, spokes on one side of the rim go to the holes on the same side of the hub. I have a feeling you may be trying to lace it up as per original.

Stillreel · Dec 5, 2011

madass140 said:
I have a feeling you may be trying to lace it up as per original.

The lacing pattern as shown is the only way the spokes fit into the holes. On the rim supplied from Walridge, the holes are clearly up - down -up down but appear to be situated along a centre line. I canot detect any 3 - 1 offset. Perhaps its the rim that's wrong? I'm calling Walridge this morning.

Thanks

BC

madass140 · Dec 5, 2011

the rim can only be fittted one way , you can ot turn the rim around, if it is the correct rim then it should be marked left or right, is it?

Hobot · Dec 5, 2011

In my learning curve ball I too got front laced up so one row was 1/4" sticking out in valley. i found another row of spokes on the seeming short side so switched em out and ended up with acceptable even row ends but still with some bend near the rim side once fully properly aligned and nipped up just short of damage to threads or pulling out the rim. My Excel rim from Buchannan's has the nipple holes all in center line with the dimples slightly staggered with holes off to one side to help aim spokes. The rim cam labled which side was disc rotor side for a bit better fit.
I went round and round on this issue beyond this forum to be assured that the mild spoke bend is only a visual mechanic let down issue not a safety issue. I took picture but too lazy to hunt up to post right now.

madass140 · Dec 5, 2011

you have laced your wheel completely different to how I do my Norton disc front, I've done heaps of them, I'll try and add a pic , but I dont have much luck adding pics on this forum, I could email you a pic .

Hobot · Dec 5, 2011

This is my first learning curve of spoking a rim and sure wish I'd started on the rear first as its now confirmed that the Norton front disc brake is the worse ever was back then and now even more so with after market options. I though the first couple times Buchannan had sent wrong spoke set but 3rd time I got even to end up all even with nipple torqued up. At the very end it took a a week of an hour a night to diddle the tone the same for each row and not upset the alignment, again and again.

Stillreel · Jan 10, 2012

YES!! My sanity is in tact! I'm not mm mmma mmmm ... crazy! They sent me the wrong length spoke. Mea culpa Walridge, you cruel, mischievous cur. As such, lacing and truing free of charge. Back to work.

Hobot · Jan 10, 2012

Yep crazy making event for me was Buchanan;s sending my first set of spokes with one row of em wrong size, but was a bit of hassle because I'd waited a year before opening and starting wheel to find out. I had to pow pow with Mr Buchanan to get corrector 2nd set and then made me wonder if rim was also trouble maker to find out indeed it was but that was best they could offer for the wild drill angles for Norton. Get the biggest Nipples offered that still fit thru rim.

Completely spoke up the disc side too quite tight jut not ringing final tight before even starting on far side that then pulls disc spokes into essentially ringing final tightness. Rim at correct spoke tension becomes almost wax like flexible and wavy at each spoke line if measured in .00x" amounts via dial gauge as ya go round and round and round - ditto'd ad nauseum....

madass140 · Jan 10, 2012

correct Hobot about lacing up these devils,
of note yesterday I placed a fairly large order of flanged alloy rims (Italian) being made to my specs, in the coming months I will have 19" rims for drums and YES I will have the 19" disc fronts, they will have no markings on them at my request, these are a very high quality rim, I'm working on the spoke sets, I already have the 19: drum spokes available identical to Buchanan 8g stainless spokes and nipples except mine have a higher polish and there is no "B" stamped on the head of the nipple,

Front disc spoke question

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