Front Brake 850 MK3, improve braking (2019)

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Update:

Got the master cylinder from AN today.

Swopped over the brake light switch & stainless line.

Just went to bleed the system & I have two issues:

1. The bleed nipple is on the RHS of the Lockheed 2696 caliper!! This is a MK3 & the caliper is mounted on the left so the bleed nipple is behind all the spokes in the wheel!!

2. I removed the caliper with the line still attached but can't budge the bleed nipple, I've put penetrating fluid on the threads & I'll leave it overnight.

Hopefully I can get the bleed nipple to turn tomorrow!!
 
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OK, managed to bleed the brake today, very akward setup but hey ho!! I still have the same pads in the caliper. I have the Ferodo Platinum pads on the way.

Haven't gone out for a spin yet but initial impression is that there's far more progressive feel to the brake lever, previously you felt it was on or off.

The brake lever comes much further back to the throttle grip, maybe 1/2" but I can't budge it from this position & I have gorilla hands!!!

I'll hopefully get a chance to take a spin later today or tomorrow morning & if I survive I'll post a review.
 

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Re-cap:

. I have a 11.5" Norvil floating disc, reliably informed by Kenny of NYC Norton that's it's "The "Norvil" 11.5" rotor and Lockheed (AP Racing) caliper is fantastic, and vintage - the design taken from the original Production Racer designs"

. Lockheed AP Racing 2696 caliper

.Goodridge stainless brake line/hose

. Brake pads: Ferodo 4004F (discontinued not sure how good they were? I have Ferodo Platinum pads ordered so hopefully they will be a bit better?)

With the original 5/8th (I believe) bore master cylinder the brake sort of worked! It did slow you down but if I 'really' wanted to stop I had to use the rear disc also & even then it felt like two blocks of wood clamping a shiny disc!! No progression, when the brake lever felt hard to pull that was it, you just couldn't pull it any more (at least I couldn't)

I changed to the AN 13mm MK3 master cylinder . . . . . . .

WOW!! I have a front brake!!

Had the bike out today, did about 50miles, mainly conjested motorway & town driving. Two finger braking and as you pull the lever more you get more braking, VERY progressive. I did an emergency stop on a deserted road from 75mph to about 10mph & it was 'swift' I didn't push it to full on brake as I felt the tyre would let go!!!

Very, very pleased with the setup I have now.

I don't want to open a can of worms but for me the 20:1 (rounded up!) ratio I have with the 13mm MC & the 41mm pistons in the lockhead AP caliper is great & more than enough brake for me & my type of riding.

The brake lever, if your REALLY pull hard, comes to about 1/2" of the grip, if a 12mm or 11mm was to allow the brake lever come even closer to the grip, I feel it would press against your fingers on the grip if you are using the two finger method to brake with the rest of your fingers around the twist grip so you can control both.

So, a very happy camper with the AN 13mm MK3 MC & caliper combo/floating disc I have :)
 
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Re-cap:

. I have a 11.5" Norvil floating disc, reliably informed by Kenny of NYC Norton that's it's "The "Norvil" 11.5" rotor and Lockheed (AP Racing) caliper is fantastic, and vintage - the design taken from the original Production Racer designs"

. Lockheed AP Racing 2696 caliper

.Goodridge stainless brake line/hose

. Brake pads: Ferodo 4004F (discontinued not sure how good they were? I have Ferodo Platinum pads ordered so hopefully they will be a bit better?)

With the original 5/8th (I believe) bore master cylinder the brake sort of worked! It did slow you down but if I 'really' wanted to stop I had to use the rear disc also & even then it felt like two blocks of wood clamping a shiny disc!! No progression, when the brake lever felt hard to pull that was it, you just couldn't pull it any more (at least I couldn't)

I changed to the AN 13mm MK3 master cylinder . . . . . . .

WOW!! I have a front brake!!

Had the bike out today, did about 50miles, mainly conjested motorway & town driving. Two finger braking and as you pull the lever more you get more braking, VERY progressive. I did an emergency stop on a deserted road from 75mph to about 10mph & it was 'swift' I didn't push it to full on brake as I felt the tyre would let go!!!

Very, very pleased with the setup I have now.

I don't want to open a can of worms but for me the 20:1 (rounded up!) ratio I have with the 13mm MC & the 41mm pistons in the lockhead AP caliper is great & more than enough brake for me & my type of riding.

The brake lever, if your REALLY pull hard, comes to about 1/2" of the grip, if a 12mm or 11mm was to allow the brake lever come even closer to the grip, I feel it would press against your fingers on the grip if you are using the two finger method to brake with the rest of your fingers around the twist grip so you can control both.

So, a very happy camper with the AN 13mm MK3 MC & caliper combo/floating disc I have :)

Glad to hear you like your new brake. I hope you do realize, according to Vintage Brake, 27:1 is a better ratio than 20:1. Had you used a 11mm master you would had an even better brake. I hope those who are about to upgrade their brake from stock are not dissuaded from a choosing a 11mm master with a 41mm caliper by comments such as yours.
 

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Minor update:

I changed over to the Ferodo Platinum pads. Just back from an 80mile spin. Did some 'spirited' braking towards the end of the spin once I felt I had 'bedded in' the new pads.

Overall not a great deal of difference over the Ferodo 4004F (which must be 20+ years old!!) , maybe a little more bite as you brake hard.

So, from my point of view, case closed. I'm happy with the front brake. Maybe when I retire, I'll try a 12mm or 11mm MC as per JimC's recommendation based on the 27:1 MC to caliper ratio Vintage Brake recommend.

Now I'm thinking about improving the front forks, as I'm riding a bit faster & braking harder than before . . . . . . . . .:rolleyes:
 
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Sounding like a broken record here, I know.
Just covered 500 or so miles in the mountains with the Mk3, pushing it pretty hard, and what a lot of fun.
The only part that wasn't fun was accidentally passing a State Trooper at 80 mph in a 50 zone. OOps!
Slowed right down and he did not pull me over, thank you!
There was lots of 70-80 mph going quickly down to 40 or even 20 mph on downhill hairpins.

The Madass brake is lovely, two fingers laid on the lever gets you some serious deceleration just before the corners. No hint of fade. At those speeds the Commando actually brakes as well as the Thruxton R with its huge twin rotors and Brembo monobloc calipers. That's going some!
No doubt the twin Brembos would be better at 130 mph, but the Norton won't do 130 mph!

The stock brake would have smoked to zero on a ride like that, any type of pad or any size MC. It just can't handle the requirement.

If you start to ride the bike more aggressively, I wouldn't waste time or money on the stock brake when there is such a great option available for not a lot of money.

Glen
 

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Sounding like a broken record here, I know.
Just covered 500 or so miles in the mountains with the Mk3, pushing it pretty hard, and what a lot of fun.
The only part that wasn't fun was accidentally passing a State Trooper at 80 mph in a 50 zone. OOps!
Slowed right down and he did not pull me over, thank you!
There was lots of 70-80 mph going quickly down to 40 or even 20 mph on downhill hairpins.

The Madass brake is lovely, two fingers laid on the lever gets you some serious deceleration just before the corners. No hint of fade. At those speeds the Commando actually brakes as well as the Thruxton R with its huge twin rotors and Brembo monobloc calipers. That's going some!
No doubt the twin Brembos would be better at 130 mph, but the Norton won't do 130 mph!

The stock brake would have smoked to zero on a ride like that, any type of pad or any size MC. It just can't handle the requirement.

If you start to ride the bike more aggressively, I wouldn't waste time or money on the stock brake when there is such a great option available for not a lot of money.

Glen

Hi Glen,

Sounds like you were having fun:)

I don't have a stock caliper, it's a 2696 AP racing caliper, I also have a floating disc based on the Production Racer design, so not a stock setup ;)

The Madass brake is on one of my many Norton lists!!! so is a lot of 'stuff' from CNW and . . . . . . . . .:rolleyes:
 
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Now I'm thinking about improving the front forks, as I'm riding a bit faster & braking harder than before . . . . . . . . .:rolleyes:

What do you have in mind - 38mm stanchions? Look at EN Products and their Ceriani replica forks.

-Knut
 

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What do you have in mind - 38mm stanchions? Look at EN Products and their Ceriani replica forks.

-Knut


Thanks for the info., probably a bit exotic for my type of ridingo_O but there's no harm in looking ;)
 
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This might be more than you want to do, but here is how I kept my MK3 switchgear and fitted the full Madass kit. The full kit gives you a big disc ,six piston caliper, new custom fork leg and the correct MC for that brake.
It stops like a modern bike now.

Broken link removed

On edit-
Sorry, I see that thread is no longer available.
Corrected link.. And the pics are actually on Page 3.
Many many thanks Glen... I'm doing the same master cyl conversion now, (11mm though..) and was looking for inspiration re adapting the switch block / throttle assy.

 
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