First gear jumps out in neutral

pierodn · Oct 25, 2023

Hello to All.
An old story this.
I usually solve the problem changing the first gear layshaft bush.
Do you have other suggests?.
Thank you.
Piero

baz · Oct 25, 2023

pierodn said:
Hello to All.
An old story this.
I usually solve the problem changing the first gear layshaft bush.
Do you have other suggests?.
Thank you.
Piero

Not sure exactly what you mean?
Is the bike jumping out of first gear?
When my Norton was doing that it turned out to be the hairpin spring and the bike wasn't actually engaging first gear fully

Torontonian · Oct 25, 2023

New tight layshaft bush , also shim the layshaft at the kicker , using rear isolastic shims . Old britts tells you how to do it properly .

baz · Oct 25, 2023

Torontonian said:
New tight layshaft bush , also shim the layshaft at the kicker , using rear isolastic shims . Old britts tells you how to do it properly .

As said here
Shim to get the best engagement

pierodn · Oct 26, 2023

Torontonian said:
New tight layshaft bush , also shim the layshaft at the kicker , using rear isolastic shims . Old britts tells you how to do it properly .

What layshaft bush?.
First gear?

pierodn · Oct 26, 2023

baz said:
Not sure exactly what you mean?
Is the bike jumping out of first gear?
When my Norton was doing that it turned out to be the hairpin spring and the bike wasn't actually engaging first gear fully

Sorry bbut title is

"First gear jumps out in neutral".

It means that the bike jumping out of first gear!

pierodn · Oct 26, 2023

Torontonian said:
New tight layshaft bush , also shim the layshaft at the kicker , using rear isolastic shims . Old britts tells you how to do it properly .

All my norton gearbox dont have shim at the kicker and all work good.
Only one jumps.
I dont believe in shim.

baz · Oct 26, 2023

pierodn said:
All my norton gearbox dont have shim at the kicker and all work good.
Only one jumps.
I dont believe in shim.

Do you have a roller bearing on the layshaft?
If you do then you really need to shim
If you have a ball race there is no need

Torontonian · Oct 26, 2023

baz said:
Do you have a roller bearing on the layshaft?
If you do then you really need to shim
If you have a ball race there is no need

Yes , I always use Roller bearing to Layshaft end of internal box . But that can create a bit of drifting . Or not . Layshaft 1 st . gear needs a good tight bush . It's delicate . Heat and cold are your friends .

pierodn · Nov 1, 2023

baz said:
Do you have a roller bearing on the layshaft?
If you do then you really need to shim
If you have a ball race there is no need

Never used roller nearing.

baz · Nov 1, 2023

pierodn said:
Never used roller nearing.

Just as long as you don't have the Portuguese ball race

oldmikew · Nov 1, 2023

If you leave the bike in gear at trafficstops as opposed tofinding neutral ,it will not jump out

L.A.B. · Nov 1, 2023

pierodn said:
All my norton gearbox dont have shim at the kicker and all work good.
Only one jumps.
I dont believe in shim.

It could be this particular gearbox does require shimming.
Have you measured the end-float? This can be done without removing the kickstart lever or outer gearbox cover.

Even if it has a layshaft ball bearing it might need to be shimmed.

Layshaft: Balls or rollers

In the recent post about layshaft re-bearing, the question of using the roller bearing or a ball bearing replacement came up. Apparently the Commando guru says balls, others say rollers. What is the pro/con for a street bike rebuild or is it just a "fielders choice" ?

www.accessnorton.com

comnoz said:
Shimming the gearbox to prevent first gear problems has been a normal shop practice since the AMC box came to be used on large motors. Long before anyone ever thought of installing a roller bearing on the layshaft. This information was courtesy of Brian Slark many years ago. And yes .010 or .020 means a lot. I have certainly cured many gearboxes that popped out of first with nothing but a few shims. Jim

Shimming the kicker shaft

www.accessnorton.com

pierodn · Nov 1, 2023

baz said:
Just as long as you don't have the Portuguese ball

baz said:
Just as long as you don't have the Portuguese ball race

Hi.
I only use FAG 6203-TB-P6-C3 ball bearng

pierodn · Nov 1, 2023

L.A.B. said:
It could be this particular gearbox does require shimming.
Have you measured the end-float? This can be done without removing the kickstart lever or outer gearbox cover.

Even if it has a layshaft ball bearing it might need to be shimmed.

Layshaft: Balls or rollers

In the recent post about layshaft re-bearing, the question of using the roller bearing or a ball bearing replacement came up. Apparently the Commando guru says balls, others say rollers. What is the pro/con for a street bike rebuild or is it just a "fielders choice" ?

www.accessnorton.com

Shimming the kicker shaft

www.accessnorton.com

Hello Les.
I will try as you sugest.
Thank you.
Piero

johnm · Nov 1, 2023

oldmikew said:
If you leave the bike in gear at trafficstops as opposed tofinding neutral ,it will not jump out

This will cook the clutch. It's a bad idea on any vehicle.

As said above shimming will normally fix the problem unless the dogs on the first gear are damaged and worn. These can sometimes be rescued with careful dressing with a dremel. But try shimming first.

baz · Nov 1, 2023

johnm said:
This will cook the clutch. It's a bad idea on any vehicle.

As said above shimming will normally fix the problem unless the dogs on the first gear are damaged and worn. These can sometimes be rescued with careful dressing with a dremel. But try shimming first.

I agree it's a bad Idea to sit with a bike in gear holding the clutch in
But that's exactly what new riders are being instructed to do
And have been for the last 3 years or so

kommando · Nov 1, 2023

baz said:
But that's exactly what new riders are being instructed to do

And what happens when a nipple drops off the end of the cable, stalls if lucky, lurches forward into traffic if not lucky.

johnm · Nov 1, 2023

baz said:
I agree it's a bad Idea to sit with a bike in gear holding the clutch in
But that's exactly what new riders are being instructed to do
And have been for the last 3 years or so

Goodness. Why on earth would they teach that?

A very long time since I passed my licence. Both in NZ and the UK but that is certainly not what I was taught. And you can determine it for yourself. Holding the clutch in while sitting at the lights will slowly heat up most bike clutches.

baz · Nov 1, 2023

johnm said:
Goodness. Why on earth would they teach that?

A very long time since I passed my licence. Both in NZ and the UK but that is certainly not what I was taught. And you can determine it for yourself. Holding the clutch in while sitting at the lights will slowly heat up most bike clutches.

They carried out a study of traffic light accidents where cars rear ended stationary bikes I believe
So it's now recommended to be back from the car in front of you
In first gear
Keeping an eye on your mirror for any car coming too fast behind you
So you can manoeuvre out of the way
Someone will correct me if I have this wrong

First gear jumps out in neutral

pierodn

baz

Torontonian

baz

pierodn

pierodn

"First gear jumps out in neutral".

pierodn

baz

Torontonian

pierodn

baz

oldmikew

L.A.B.

Moderator

Layshaft: Balls or rollers

Shimming the kicker shaft

pierodn

pierodn

Layshaft: Balls or rollers

Shimming the kicker shaft

johnm

baz

kommando

johnm

baz

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First gear jumps out in neutral

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"First gear jumps out in neutral".