Evolution of the Commando?

worntorn

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It has been suggested that the 961 is just another new generic motorcycle that happens to have a Norton sticker on it.
There is more to it than that, and anyone who has followed Keeny Dreer's efforts and struggles will undertand .
A lot of Dreer is in the 961, even if the engine internals are not . By all accounts from riders, the power characteristics of the new bike are much like our original Commandos, famous for their grunt, only the new bike has more of it.

The new 961 doesnt look like any other bike on the market, but it does tie back in to the original rather well.

Evolution of the Commando?




Evolution of the Commando?




Dreer 880

Evolution of the Commando?



More radical Dreer 880


Evolution of the Commando?




The new Norton 961


Evolution of the Commando?
 
Start with the first one after it hatched from the egg of a Cheetah 45 Ranger P11 mated with prior Norton hybrids.

Evolution of the Commando?


If the newbie company would put on a snail type blower it'd be as fast as most anything out there, especially on the get up and look even more attractive different from the rest of the world cycles.
 
Hobot, you are right , the fastback comes first. I would add it except I have a problem keeping the photos in chronological order. For some reason the system here likes to flip the order when one clicks the submit button. After several tries I finally got things to stay put.

So we'll have to imagine that fastback being at the top of my post.

Glen
 
You can tag edit and then tag image icon where you want it to show then tag image location to insert and Bob should be your relative. You can grab my images with r click on copy image location URL.

I was in almost daily contact with Kenny and his wife Linda right up to the point Kenny sold off his prior Norton shop & stock to take his leap into the nasty world of licensing and finance and shady dealings. I resent the failure of Gardner to give Dreer the credit he deserves in the genetics of his new Norton. Kenny Dreer is the only one steepped in Commando character involved in what we see today - the rest is just re-detailing to get into production while trying to steal limelight racing with only a Norton decal related bike. If it was my factory I'd have Kenny featured front and center explaining and riding and posing with half naked girls on big posters and video.

Evolution of the Commando?


Evolution of the Commando?


Evolution of the Commando?


Evolution of the Commando?


Evolution of the Commando?


Read here for rest of the story left out in current involvement
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/featu ... ewall.html

Evolution of the Commando?


Evolution of the Commando?
 
"If it was my factory I'd have Kenny featured front and center explaining and riding and posing with half naked girls on big posters and video."

True he does have a great rep in the motorcycle world, but that bridge may have been burned.

I can imagine Garner took full advantage of the distressed situation Dreer and his backers were in, as may happen to Garner if he slips far enough.
Big fish constantly eat little fish in that world.

Glen
 
Anyone arguing that the Garner 961 ISN'T a slight tweaking of Dreer's 952 is delerious.

To yammer on and on about how the new bike has nothing to do with KD's efforts, is to overlook the fact that they appear identical. If Garner is such a "visionary", the new bike would look exactly that - NEW. For goodness sake, they even had Terreblanche onboard, then I suppose the best he could do was copy every shape Kenny came up with?

"Get a grip", as the kids like to say nowdays...
 
Well d/t the big fish feeding off the many bait fish i've no respect nor desire for the new norton nor way its been run so far. The real Norton flame of evolution is within the small private people like us to carry on for those after us. Can you picture what the new norton owners will face in sourcing parts and repairs say in 10 yrs compared to the old Norton owners? I don't see vintage vendors taking on the task. The Tee-shirts, cups and expensive Norton watches may have lasting future though.
 
hobot said:
The Tee-shirts, cups and expensive Norton watches may have lasting future though.

You can still get in on the future collectible swag, virtually on the ground floor! although the "ground" sure seems higher in Garner's neck of the swag woods...
 
Yep, in every other make and model of motorcycles going racing with iconic Tee shirts and nick naks, it builds their image and sales potential but in new non-norton case if they take any wins, it has no relation to their production bikes desirability or bragging rights. To me and many others, Norton genetics left the building with Kenny Dreer.
 
You can carry that line of thinking further as some do and make 1962 the end of "proper" Nortons or go even further as others do and make the cutoff point 1952, when AMC bought out Norton. This way most of the Nortons produced aren't Nortons. Do away with the great Rotary racers that annihilated the Japanese and other IOM competition in 92, those aren't Nortons,all of the Commandos, and most of the Dommie production, including the great SS bikes of the fifties/sixties, the Featherbed Manx racers from 52 on, none of those are Nortons either!

I dont see a need to draw such lines, the bikes are here (for now) and for those lucky enough to own them, the riding experience seems to have more in common with our original Commandos than with any new bike out there. Hopefully without the need to fettle for an hour in order to ride for an hour, the new bike would be best not to have that in common with our old bikes!

Glen
 
Right in our desire for a happy successful family continuity we have to over look the real end of Norton came with Pa's death and sale of company outside of his family, much to their disdain. First Norton's used French engines so there's extra rub in British roots. But I make up for it some by rubbing in the BMW guys with news of where their Boxer engine got its 1st claim to name.
 
grandpaul said:
Anyone arguing that the Garner 961 ISN'T a slight tweaking of Dreer's 952 is delerious.

To yammer on and on about how the new bike has nothing to do with KD's efforts, is to overlook the fact that they appear identical. If Garner is such a "visionary", the new bike would look exactly that - NEW. For goodness sake, they even had Terreblanche onboard, then I suppose the best he could do was copy every shape Kenny came up with?

"Get a grip", as the kids like to say nowdays...
No I think you are the delirious one and need to get a grip Grandpa. I have been to the factory twice, the last time only last week having my 961 serviced and to say SG's 961 is a slight tweeking of KD's bike just shows your ignorance. I suggest you get over to Donington Park and compare KD's bike (sitting under the stairs) to the current 961 as I have done and then make stupid uninformed comments like that.
Lets go through some of the slight tweeks :- 961 fuel injected, KD carbs oh and of course all the electronics that go with fuel injection and the high pressure fuel pump, guess they just tossed that in through the filler cap, I am sure Jim Comstock will agree with you that fitting fuel injection is just a slight tweek. Crankcases are totally different and I mean totally different. The oil pump is separate to the timing cover on the SG bike and the timing cover is also different, SG's housing an oil filter at the rear KD's looking more like a 70's commando with a points cover, the cylinders are different, the cylinder head is different, the frame is different, the headlamp brackets are a bit of bent metal on the Dreer bike but machined billet on the SG bike, the yolks are different as as are the brake caliper mounts, the clocks are different as is the dash panel, the exhaust system is different, the hydraulic clutch mechanism is different, the primary case is different, I could go on but it is pointless as they are tottaly different only the same in silhouette and I have only mentioned some of the bits you can see and not what will obviously be different inside.
I am not trying to take anything away from what Dreer did as he designed a beatifull looking bike and without it the 961 would never have happened but you have to give credit to SG and his team for carrying on where dreer left of and re engineer the bike and actually produce them in numbers with Euro 3 approval and now it seems US approvals.
Oh and your comment about Tereblanche being onboard is a load more b*ll?x as he didn't join the company till January 2011 long after the 961 was launched so explain how he copied every shape Dreer came up with, time machine maybe? :roll:
 
worntorn said:
A lot of Dreer is in the 961, even if the engine internals are not .

What do you mean by that ?

Dreer and designer Paul Gaudio designed it as the 952.
The 961 is just a minor revision to this design - mainly to make it all metric ??
 
worntorn said:

Please don't use this pic as an example of an 'original' Commando.

I know you got it off Wiki, but it doesn't even have proper peashooters on it !!!!!!!!!!
 
And while we are here, we could throw in a pic of the first of the modern Norton twins - the Model 7 Dominator of 1949.
Grandfather of the Commando (if you take the HD advertising line). Or is that great grandfather.
Clear family resemblance right through to the 961...

Evolution of the Commando?
 
Yeah, the eyesight must be going, I didnt notice the aftermarket mufflers. Im not writing the definitive book on Norton history here, just trying to show the progression of the bikes thru the years, so hopefully Ill be forgiven the crime of inadvertantly choosing a bike with nonstandard mufflers!

As far as the internals of the 961 being quite different from Kenny's bike, yes, Its my understanding that they are. See snakeships post above.
 
We think snakehips needs to see a 952 (actual capacity 961cc).

Dreer article
"The 952 will enter production with 41mm Keihin flat-slide carburetors, though Dreer is already working on a fuel-injection system. ".

The author of the wiki Commando pic should be castigated for including that pic as an 'original' Commando. You only copied the error....
 
952 crankshaft - circa Kenny Dreer.
So tell us the Garner 961 is any different ?

Evolution of the Commando?
 
Rohan said:
We think snakehips needs to see a 952 (actual capacity 961cc).

Dreer article
"The 952 will enter production with 41mm Keihin flat-slide carburetors, though Dreer is already working on a fuel-injection system. ".
As I said I have seen it, in fact I have seen all three of the Dreer bikes the 2 red ones and the final black 952 or as it became 961 which was used in all the early promo shots and videos. All have carbs. Dreer may have been working on a fuel injection system but it didn't find its way onto any of the bikes at Donington but there again none of his bikes entered production either so I dont understand the relevance of that quote.
 
snakehips said:
so I dont understand the relevance of that quote.
(vis-a-vis fuel injection)(That quote was 2007)

Did Garners purchase of the 961cc 952 include a working fuel injection system, we wonder..
Or the makings of one. Seems extremely relevant if someone is claiming the fuel injection is entirely a later development ...?
 
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