Engine cradle question please

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BERT

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Do these holes for the center stand bolts have bushings installed on an original 72 cradle? It is hard to tell with the galling and paint. Thanks in advance.
Engine cradle question please
 
Yes.
The cradle top hat insert is what the stand pivots on.
The non stepped bush has some relevance but forget what (The cradle hole size perhaps)


Edit.
I checked my original 1971 cradle (The first year for that stand location ?) the hole is smaller (Uses the non stepped bush against the cradle) than a later cradle (oil filter mount holes ) that would have the larger hole and stepped bush that inserts for better stand support.
 
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Do these holes for the center stand bolts have bushings installed on an original 72 cradle?

No.
Yes.
The cradle top hat insert is what the stand pivots on.

That's the '850' stand (Edit: also fitted to some late 750) although the 850 stand can be fitted to '71-on 750 with the fitting kit.

The non stepped bush has some relevance but forget what (The cradle hole size perhaps).

Non-stepped are for the '750' stand. Edit As your edit.
 
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Yes.
The cradle top hat insert is what the stand pivots on.
The non stepped bush has some relevance but forget what (The cradle hole size perhaps)


Edit.
I checked my original 1971 cradle (The first year for that stand location ?) the hole is smaller (Uses the non stepped bush against the cradle) than a later cradle (oil filter mount holes ) that would have the larger hole and stepped bush that inserts for better stand support.
Yes.
The cradle top hat insert is what the stand pivots on.
The non stepped bush has some relevance but forget what (The cradle hole size perhaps)


Edit.
I checked my original 1971 cradle (The first year for that stand location ?) the hole is smaller (Uses the non stepped bush against the cradle) than a later cradle (oil filter mount holes ) that would have the larger hole and stepped bush that inserts for better stand support.
Yes, this cradlè also has the smaller holes and the nonstepped bushing flush with the center stand legs. I have an upgrade center stand kit which includes the stepped bushings only and am unsure whether or not this cradle has bushings which can be knocked out to accommodate the newer system before I modify anything.
 
No.


That's the '850' stand (Edit: also fitted to some late 750) although the 850 stand can be fitted to '71-on 750 with the fitting kit.



Non-stepped are for the '750' stand. Edit As your edit.
Thanks L.A.B. you had answered my question while I was composing my last post. Thanks Timewarp and maylar also for your input. Cheers,Dave
 
I am tempted to modify these supplied stepped bushings and go with the old configuration since the cradle holes aren't wallowed out at all. I'm not keen on drilling the cradle holes for the stepped bushings.
 
I am tempted to modify these supplied stepped bushings and go with the old configuration since the cradle holes aren't wallowed out at all. I'm not keen on drilling the cradle holes for the stepped bushings.

There should be two sets of bushes in the kit? As I understand it, you use the parallel pair (06.4873) to fit the stand to your 750 Edit: cradle.
Engine cradle question please

 
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No.


That's the '850' stand although the 850 stand can be fitted to '71-on 750 with the fitting kit.



Non-stepped are for the '750' stand.

Yes, this cradlè also has the smaller holes and the nonstepped bushing flush with the center stand legs. I have an upgrade center stand kit which includes the stepped bushings only and am unsure whether or not this cradle has bushings which can be knocked out to accommodate the newer system before I modify anything.

I went and checked some cradles after posting and edited that post. (before the the other replies)

The inserted bushes are probably better support wise (as long as the bolts are tight) but a hole modification with the cradle out.

It was easier to replace the cradle on my 1971 with a later one with no thought to that stand hole size at the time. (When I got the bike it had no 1/8" spacer on the top gearbox bolt so the cradle was bent inward on the drive side)
 
I went and checked some cradles after posting and edited that post. (before the the other replies)

The inserted bushes are probably better support wise (as long as the bolts are tight) but a hole modification with the cradle out.

It was easier to replace the cradle on my 1971 with a later one with no thought to that stand hole size at the time. (When I got the bike it had no 1/8" spacer on the top gearbox bolt so the cradle was bent inward on the drive side)
This bike had that spacer but it was on the wrong side . That really twisted up the drivetrain and wasn't hard to spot the misalignment. The first clue was all of this aluminum glitter(which I don't care for) all over my leather boots.
 
This bike had that spacer but it was on the wrong side . That really twisted up the drivetrain and wasn't hard to spot the misalignment. The first clue was all of this aluminum glitter(which I don't care for) all over my leather boots.

There are some crazy X owners.

As far as your post, Maylar answered it precisely in one short sentence. :)

A pity you are not within Africa Twin distance, I got a centre/center stand kit and those shiny new non stepped bushes are still gathering dust unused.
 
There are some crazy X owners.

As far as your post, Maylar answered it precisely in one short sentence. :)

A pity you are not within Africa Twin distance, I got a centre/center stand kit and those shiny new non stepped bushes are still gathering dust unused.
My question was whether there are bushings in the cradle. I did not question the center stand.
 

The above diagram is all fucking wrong. Full stop.

If you want to do it right, make your own stepped bushes to suit your cradle, as with any original type mounting, it will have flogged the shit out of the holes in the cradle.

The small diameter of your bushes should be made to be a tight fit in the cradle, and so that it goes through the cradle just short of the thickness of the cradle. The large diameter should be made to be a swivel fit in your centre stand, but must extend right through the stand and stick out at least 1/2 the thickness of the stand. When the bushes and stand are fitted in position, the through bolts including the heavy washers don't actually have to be a snug fit inside the bush, but when tightened properly, the stand can rotate on the bushes and leave the bushes tight in the cradle. I would put a picture or diagram on here if I could.


The above kit here is sure to ferk up your cradle. Look, they even supply fully threaded bolts to fit in your cradle to chew it out. [ correct engineering would only allow non threaded parts of the bolt to be inside the equipment in this case ] Total waste of time. Besides the new stand shown will not be strong enough to withstand staring the bike on its stand as it should do. I have welded 1/2 H T steel rod inside the lower section of both my stands, on the 750 and 850.

All the above modification works for 750 and 850 [ 71 to 74 as I don't own an earlier or later Commando so cant say ]



Bert, that answers your question.


PS. years ago, I used 7/16 bolts in my pivot mod. That was overkill, so when I did my 850, I used 3/8 inch bolts. Holes in bushes were correctly drilled for the bolts used. ie, 1/64th inch bigger than the bolts.f
 
My question was whether there are bushings in the cradle. I did not question the center stand.

That was answered in my edit.
In your case there are no bushings in the cradle (small hole at around 1/2" ID) because the hole size does not allow it.
In the cradle with the larger hole that takes the stepped bush then yes the step on the bush becomes a bushing in the cradle hole.

Either way if the bolts are kept tight the bushing assembly stepped or otherwise will remain secure.
#
Another edit before going back to machining parts.

Is one better than the other as far as the bushes that the main stand pivots on.

The original bush has a larger bearing face on the cradle by area which might reduce it being driven into the cradle once the 1/2" bolt iirc) is tightened and that torque could be extremely high.
Both bushes extend beyond the eye thickness of the main stand so the bush and cradle take that applied compression.

The later stepped bush might allow a more stable joint with the step locating in the larger to suit hole in the cradle but by default of the step there is less footprint on the cradle to meet that compression from the bolt.

Is that better, maybe not but the bolt if it is not tight on either bush will cause some form of problem in the future.

If I had thought it to be some form of future calamity in waiting I would have modified the main stand and all manner or other whatever in the cradle mounting.
I did not bother as if what is there is in reasonable order it was good enough (for me)

I had forgotten about the difference until looking at my spare cradles today which are now back gathering dust.
 
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Thanks guys for the input. The parallel bushings were missing from the kit and are on the way, and I will find straight-shanked bolts so there is no threaded portion through the fittings. Thanks keinorton for that detail
 
I reinforced my stand similar to Kerinorton , I would recommend it to anyone who starts their bike on the center stand .
 
If the parts on your bike fit properly, you should only have to do them up once. This re-tightening idea just shows how some of you put up with ill fitting parts.
 
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