EML - Intermittant

neilcook66

neilcook66

Joined
Sep 15, 2017
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Hi guys - I have Euro IV 961. Delivered in Dec 2017. Have an ongoing problem with the EML coming on and going off. Called Norton when it first happened and they said not to worry and they would look at it at 1st service. During the first 500 miles the warning light came on and went off 5 times at various mileages. The engine management light was on when I took it in for its 1st service.

Norton identified the issue was with the lambda sensors and changed them for a new model with a "wider tolerance". At the same time they installed the long open pipes and remapped the bike (cat is still installed)

Since then the engine warning light has come back on again at 722 and went off at 738 miles. Advice is take it back again. Anyone experience similar or can advise on how to self-diagnose?

Thanks
P.S I'm located south coast UK
 
Well, I also have a late 2017 Euro4. I installed the decat and shorties, and hadn't seen the MIL, until I got my bike back from the dealer, who installed the lambda plugs for me. I'm not sure that was the reason for the MIL, as it stays on even now I have reconnected the lambda's. Might have to delete the error from the ecu, but as said, I'll need an other OBD dongle...
 
Dkluyskens said:
Well, I also have a late 2017 Euro4. I installed the decat and shorties, and hadn't seen the MIL, until I got my bike back from the dealer, who installed the lambda plugs for me. I'm not sure that was the reason for the MIL, as it stays on even now I have reconnected the lambda's. Might have to delete the error from the ecu, but as said, I'll need an other OBD dongle...
Click to expand...

Hi - thx for the reply. New to this, but what is required to access ECU and read the fault codes?
 
Euro 4 Sport - Had the light on intermittently with the standard pipes and then with the remap when the short noisy pipes were put on. Now have the decats and the noisy pipes with another map and the light is on all the time. Previously a few starts and/or tens of miles would make the light go out. I did 300 miles last week and it stayed on throughout. I mentioned it to Clem last week to see if there was a later map (mine was put on last December) but that drew a blank. I was told that the new lambda sensors are more sensitive to the air at the joint in the pipes nearby so some bikes suffer, some do not. Will have to try and get a perfect joint where the headers meet the decat pipes.
 
hmmm... you do still run the lamba's, right ?
Did you put on exhaust paste on the joints, or just slid them on ?
My dealer told me there were seperate maps for the shorties WITH and WITHOUT cats...
 
regental said:
Euro 4 Sport - Had the light on intermittently with the standard pipes and then with the remap when the short noisy pipes were put on. Now have the decats and the noisy pipes with another map and the light is on all the time. Previously a few starts and/or tens of miles would make the light go out. I did 300 miles last week and it stayed on throughout. I mentioned it to Clem last week to see if there was a later map (mine was put on last December) but that drew a blank. I was told that the new lambda sensors are more sensitive to the air at the joint in the pipes nearby so some bikes suffer, some do not. Will have to try and get a perfect joint where the headers meet the decat pipes.
Click to expand...

Interesting to hear others have a similar problem. I've been told
(1) there are no problems reported and I'm the only one experiencing issues.
(2) the new sensors have wider parameters.
(3) if EML comes on it shouldn't be ridden far and needs to go back to the dealer
 
Well, I haven't been able to connect to the Omex ECU in my bike yet, but maybe I don't have the correct OBD dongle or app, so I'll continue trying...
 
EU regulations enforced ODB2 access to ECU's

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=celex:32014R0044

and to gain Euro VI status this must have been confirmed at testing.

ODB2 access will give you the fault codes which you then have to get decoded but they should be standard codes a google search will find.

Once you have the code then you know whether to panic, worry about or ignore, you should also be able to wipe it back to blank.

Its not unusual for Lambda probes to create faults where none really exist but that is really down to the ECU programming and the timing and limits set for out of range readings being used to create the codes.

I have an MOT due shortly, timely reminder for me to get the OBD2 reader out to clear the current fault code and check engine light, pre and post Lambda's are showing different voltages for too long. Once reset I have 2 or 3 hours driving before it reappears, time enough for an MOT, caused by the probes not being the same age, too cheap to buy both probes new.
 
Dkluyskens said:
hmmm... you do still run the lamba's, right ?
Did you put on exhaust paste on the joints, or just slid them on ?
My dealer told me there were seperate maps for the shorties WITH and WITHOUT cats...
Click to expand...

The dealer has done all the pipe swaps so there is no paste on there at present - this may well be the next move. As I understand it, there are 3 maps, OMEX ECU, for the Euro4 bikes - std, medium/noisy pipes with cats and medium/noisy pipes with decat tubes.
I'm on the third map with the decat & short noisy pipes - with the light on, the bike performs fine - with the std map, the bike did not perform well with the light on. Still got the lambda sensors plugged in as std - I should think it will invalidate the warranty if they are removed. Norton changed the supplier of the lambda sensors within the last 18 months, I think to coincide with the Euro 4 bikes.
 
anyway... trying to connect my OBD dongle and getting a read out (which failed), suddenly the MIL went out. So I took the bike out for a 1h trip, and everything looks ok... weird...
 
Just like to chirp in please. Bike MOTs do not include emissions checks (yet). Lambda sensors enable the ecu to weaken the mixture. In other words reduce the amount of exhaust gas produced at the cost of a hotter engine and poor power delivery. The Norton ecu mappings are ridiculously bad compare to say Triumph mappings.
I fitted a pair of so called “o2 sensor eliminators” onmy 2018 961 sport in order to remove the lambda/o2 sensors completely and allow the engine to run cooler and smoother between 2700 and 3200 rpm. This was a complete success. No lambda sensor issues for me. Never seen the MIL come on. Hope this helps.
 
Terry, can you tell us more please?

If your bike is a 2018 I assume it’s a Euro 4?

I was under the impression that E4 owners had had problems / negative results with o2 delete. You obviously didn’t.

What set up have you got in terms of pipe / cat / map?

Did you just fit the kit yourself, or was any re mapping / tweaking required / expert input required?

I’ve got a 2018 E4 bike with short pipes, de cat and factory re map. I’ve also got an o2 delete kit on the shelf. But my bike has been relatively trouble free and I’m therefore rather hesitant to start f*cking about with things that I really don’t understand.

But your comments about it being a complete success do make me wonder if I’m missing out on hitherto unknown pleasures !
 
I have been in touch with the factory and Omex as it seems the later euro 4 omex ecus at the least are not obd compatible. I expressed my dis-satisfaction with this but the stock answer seems to be that they are a small manufacturer and the expense... had no reply to my email saying it seems previous ecus could be read. It is a frustration as it’s over 100 miles to the factory and almost as far to Teasdale motorcycles if and when I get an electrical fault and to be able to diagnose myself would be a major benefit. It seems incredulous that this has been mandatory on cars in the uk for 20 years or so but still not for bikes.
 
The dealers at Teasdale, Krazy Horse, Thor, Kickstart and Prime must use a hardware/software interface that links to several different manufacturers ECU - surely they would not use different interface/software for every model they sell. Would it be worth contacting them to ask what they use if the factory and omex are being tight lipped?
John
 
Pretty sure the hardware is the same but the software is different and only available to Norton dealers
 
Chris Drew said:
I have been in touch with the factory and Omex as it seems the later euro 4 omex ecus at the least are not obd compatible. I expressed my dis-satisfaction with this but the stock answer seems to be that they are a small manufacturer and the expense... had no reply to my email saying it seems previous ecus could be read. It is a frustration as it’s over 100 miles to the factory and almost as far to Teasdale motorcycles if and when I get an electrical fault and to be able to diagnose myself would be a major benefit. It seems incredulous that this has been mandatory on cars in the uk for 20 years or so but still not for bikes.
Click to expand...
I just purchased an OBD2 reader as the EML light came on and it will not connect to the ECU, my bike is 2018 with Omex ecu, why won't it connect?
 
Well If you have gone through the effort of getting a OBD2 reader and the OBD to OMEX 9 pin d-sub connector/cable , there is not much else. If Norton said at the time OMEX is not compatible with OBD2 then its not I suppose. Coote's have the OMEX Dealer software and cable connector . Have you tried to reach out to OMEX themselves ? This is another reason I am glad that I have the SCS Delta ecu.
 
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