Emgo piston pin circlips (2014)

Douglass Harroun · Jul 29, 2014

Anybody notice they fit loose? And damage the pistons after a few miles, pounding the clip grooves, causing burrs?
Doug

concours · Jul 29, 2014

Douglass Harroun said:
Anybody notice they fit loose? And damage the pistons after a few miles, pounding the clip grooves, causing burrs?
Doug

It's very easy to compress them too much at installation, and then they fit loose. Not as springey as yesteryear.... :lol:

comnoz · Jul 29, 2014

Douglass Harroun said:
Anybody notice they fit loose? And damage the pistons after a few miles, pounding the clip grooves, causing burrs?
Doug

Yes, many of the rings supplied by JCC are the wrong size. Throw them in your junk drawer and go to your nearest parts store with your snap ring pliers and find the next bigger size.
The loose rings may fall out and I have seen a few damaged cylinders because of it. Jim

kerinorton · Jul 30, 2014

comnoz said:
Douglass Harroun said:

Anybody notice they fit loose? And damage the pistons after a few miles, pounding the clip grooves, causing burrs?
Doug

Click to expand...

Yes, many of the rings supplied by JCC are the wrong size. Throw them in your junk drawer and go to your nearest parts store with your snap ring pliers and find the next bigger size.
The loose rings may fall out and I have seen a few damaged cylinders because of it. Jim

Precisely. if they are too loose, definitely bin them or you will end up binning the engine.

concours · Jul 30, 2014

OP, are you using a proper insertion tool for these modern tabless circlips? Or working them in using no specific tools? (screwdriver, or the like)
They are made to be inserted properly with this:
http://www.motoparthub.com/SM_12452_1_S ... AhDJ8P8HAQ

Convential methods usually result in over/localized bending of the circlip, thus the loose fit you've observed. Properly installed, those clips are as reliable as anything else.

debby · Jul 30, 2014

concours said:
OP, are you using a proper insertion tool for these modern tabless circlips? Or working them in using no specific tools? (screwdriver, or the like)
They are made to be inserted properly with this:
http://www.motoparthub.com/SM_12452_1_S ... AhDJ8P8HAQ

Convential methods usually result in over/localized bending of the circlip, thus the loose fit you've observed. Properly installed, those clips are as reliable as anything else.

The circlips are the tab-type so your suggestion, well-intentioned though it may have been, is irrelevant. The supplied circlips are simply the wrong size. I got some from my local NAPA store that fit correctly. McMaster-Carr also sells them but you have to buy a bag of 50.

concours · Jul 30, 2014

debby said:
concours said:

OP, are you using a proper insertion tool for these modern tabless circlips? Or working them in using no specific tools? (screwdriver, or the like)
They are made to be inserted properly with this:
http://www.motoparthub.com/SM_12452_1_S ... AhDJ8P8HAQ

Convential methods usually result in over/localized bending of the circlip, thus the loose fit you've observed. Properly installed, those clips are as reliable as anything else.

Click to expand...

The circlips are the tab-type so your suggestion, well-intentioned though it may have been, is irrelevant. The supplied circlips are simply the wrong size. I got some from my local NAPA store that fit correctly. McMaster-Carr also sells them but you have to buy a bag of 50.

Of course. Thanks for the tip. Do you have a P/N from McMaster? Or NAPA? Maybe a pic?

lwmcd1 · Jul 30, 2014

My understanding is that Emgo products are generally sub-quality.

debby · Jul 30, 2014

concours said:
Of course. Thanks for the tip. Do you have a P/N from McMaster? Or NAPA? Maybe a pic?

They're just standard circlips so the photo wouldn't be very interesting. The parts guy at NAPA picked them from a box of various-sized circlips (like they do for o-rings) so I don't have a NAPA part number. Basically you just need the next size larger than what EMGO/JCC supply. I can look for the McMaster part number when I get home. I did buy a bag of them so now I have a lifetime supply!

midnightlamp · Jul 30, 2014

That's strange, I just put mine together and has zero issues. They were in fact the right size.

worntorn · Jul 30, 2014

Kinda makes you wonder about the quality of the piston and rings if the company producing/marketing them doesn't know enough or take enough care to supply the correct circlip?

Glen

debby · Jul 30, 2014

The pistons are said to be good quality, the rings not so much. I put a set of EMGO-branded pistons in my 850 a few years ago. 6000 miles so far, no issues. The circlips that came with those were the correct size. The JCC-branded pistons I recently put in my 750 came with the incorrect clips.

For rings, I used Hastings in the 850 and a set of NOS Hepolites in the 750. All good so far...

worntorn · Jul 30, 2014

I stopped using Emgo products after finding several big sharp metal shards in a new Emgo oil filter that I was about to use on the MK111.
The swarf appeared to have come from the thread cutting operation. The bike got new oil but the old filter on that change!

Sounds like some of their stuff is OK but quality control is up to the end user.

Glen

comnoz · Jul 30, 2014

I have had very good luck with the Emgo/JCC pistons and have fit hundreds of them. I do not use the JCC rings -they are very poor. You definitely have to watch the circlips, some are correct and some are not.

JCC supplies pistons to many OEM manufacturers such as Subaru and Yamaha. I suspect the circlip and ring package is from a different source. Jim

midnightlamp · Jul 30, 2014

Hastings rings for me, pistons were probably inspected prior to shipping out from some sources!

Would still recommend their use. Quality is decent, and the current hepo's are NOT better, rings 100% go with something else (hastings or total seal).

concours · Jul 30, 2014

debby said:
concours said:

Of course. Thanks for the tip. Do you have a P/N from McMaster? Or NAPA? Maybe a pic?

Click to expand...

They're just standard circlips so the photo wouldn't be very interesting. The parts guy at NAPA picked them from a box of various-sized circlips (like they do for o-rings) so I don't have a NAPA part number. Basically you just need the next size larger than what EMGO/JCC supply. I can look for the McMaster part number when I get home. I did buy a bag of them so now I have a lifetime supply!

Ok, so you mean standard internal retaining rings, punched from flat material, complete with holes in the ears for the circlip tool to engage? Or made from wire?

debby · Jul 30, 2014

concours said:
Ok, so you mean standard internal retaining rings, punched from flat material, complete with holes in the ears for the circlip tool to engage?

^this.

standard circlip pliers work well.

That tool you found would have been useful when I put a new piston in my Maico a couple of years ago. That piston (Wiseco) did use wire circlips.

concours · Jul 30, 2014

debby said:
concours said:

Ok, so you mean standard internal retaining rings, punched from flat material, complete with holes in the ears for the circlip tool to engage?

Click to expand...

^this.

standard circlip pliers work well.

That tool you found would have been useful when I put a new piston in my Maico a couple of years ago. That piston (Wiseco) did use wire circlips.

Wiseco's are best for four strokes and ashtrays.. oops, that's another discussion.
I PM'd you.

I have seen many cheap retaining rings bend from just using the tool to compress it, low grade crap. It can look like the wrong size. That's what I was trying to clarify. The installation tool works on both kinds.

worntorn · Jul 30, 2014

MAICO, now you're talking. 1982 490 mxer here, too much fun!
Back to Commandoland.

Glen

debby · Jul 30, 2014

worntorn said:
MAICO, now you're talking. 1982 490 mxer here, too much fun!
Back to Commandoland.

Glen

250 Square Barrel for me.

No time to ride it though.