Dumb Ignition Question

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Super Seven

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I've been trying to figure out what to buy for an electronic ignition for at least a MK III Commando and possibly a MK II, which has points, as well.

Back in the 80s, I installed a Boyer on the MK III because the second mechanical advance had the notch wear, been filed out, etc. I never really liked the Boyer, due to the slow and never ending advance curve. Ended up advancing to like 32 at 5K to salvage low and mid range power. I don't know if they are still like that. I didn't care for the (I think) NEMA G10 board, which made crunching sounds when the plate was tightened. First test drive, it moved, because I didn't tighten it enough.

Short story is that I want a more aggressive advance curve. I don't know if a current Boyer is like mine.

I'm seeing a number of options, including the Tri park, Pazon, and Vape. The Vape is pretty expensive, and seems to fit Norton, Triumph and BSA. Maybe so, but one is supposed to run 28 degrees full advance, and Triumph 39 degrees. as I recall. I don't know that the same curve works equally well on both machines, assuming its the same model. I don't hate points except for the troublesome and apparently not available (formerly expensive) mechanical advance. When I had points, I ran it for years with a dead battery. The old Boyer likes volts. It also broke a wire off one of the pick ups, which was the only time that bike stranded me.

What are people using?
 
I use the Vape Wassell and have no complaints... simple to install, works well, no issues in the 2 yrs. it's been in there, bike runs well, price was inexpensive.
 
What's the best beer to drink while timing your motorcycle?
Probably opening Pandora's Box here bud.
If it's advance curves that interest you, there are a couple of EI's out there that let you choose or set the curve, but they're expensive.
 
Super Seven said:
The Vape is pretty expensive
Click to expand...

Vape is one of the cheapest if not the cheapest.

www.britishbikebits.com

61495 Wassell Vape Ignition Kit - Triumph, BSA POS - BBB

Wassell Vape Ignition Kit for BSA, Triumph, Norton Singles and Twins with side points
www.britishbikebits.com www.britishbikebits.com

www.britishbikebits.com

KIT00052 Boyer MKIV Ignition Kit - 12v Twins BSA, Triumph - BBB

Boyer Bransden MKIV Ignition Kit - 12v Twins BSA, Triumph
www.britishbikebits.com www.britishbikebits.com

Super Seven said:
Maybe so, but one is supposed to run 28 degrees full advance, and Triumph 39 degrees. as I recall. I don't know that the same curve works equally well on both machines, assuming its the same model. I don't know that the same curve works equally well on both machines, assuming its the same model.
Click to expand...

Although the full advance figures were different (38 degrees for Unit Triumphs) both had 12 degree (24 degrees crankshaft) AAUs.
 
I have a (cheap) Wassell/Vape kit on a Triumph 650 and it works very well at all speeds.

However, it has that “never-ending” advance curve that you say you don’t want.
 
Typo. The Wassel/Vape is indeed very inexpensive. There is an unused one on Craig's List close to me I could probably get for around $100, and they sell new for $140 at the first place I looked on line. I guess starting voltage might be an important consideration should I elect to install a starter motor. The Power Arc is all of three times the price of the Vape, but that is with coils and plug wires
 
I have a Wassel / Vape which I haven't installed yet. It is definitely the cheapest on the market, and in my opinion the most robust looking and professionally manufactured of all that I've seen. It even comes with a small pin spanner to hold the rotor.

Well worth looking at are Elektronik Sachse. they are little pricey, but you have a choice of 3 or 9 ignition curve models, every part is available as a spare and everybody I know who has fitted one (to various bikes) highly recommends them.

www.elektronik-sachse.de

Twin

Twin
www.elektronik-sachse.de www.elektronik-sachse.de
 
I wouldn't lay all the blame for where your bike seems to make it's best power at the feet of the EI you chose. There's a bunch of other stuff to consider, like the camshaft design, the engine compression ratio, valve timing, porting, carb choice, exhaust and muffler choice... Lots of stuff effect where your bike makes power...

I have my original stock cam, higher than normal compression (never measured), and 30mm dual amals with a digital boyer (red box) timed @ 31* at 5000 rpm's. My bike's power comes on strong at about 4000 rpm. I had another norton owner ride my bike and ask if it was a combat engine because it responds so strongly to the throttle...

There's more than a few different options to chose from, which determin the character of your engine... I admit when I made my own choices, I did so without any expert help, so I'm lucky that I am pretty happy with how my engine runs and where it makes it's power... I recall someone knowlegeable here saying that the stock cam was a good mid range power cam, and that some of the high performance cams didn't have such good midrange power. I'm glad I got the more "streetable" cam, 'cause I'm just cruising around on it...

I know that the boyer has it's critics. I've never had a problem with either one I've used on my commando. I know they are reputed to not handle low voltage as well as some other EI's, ... but I've never had a failure in 40 years on my bike.

.
 
Last edited:
The Wassel/Vape certainly looks the most fully protected. I don't really want to have the advance curve like my Boyer. Its pushing 40 years old. I would expect a real advance curve with a beginning and end by now, but I don't know. I think Boyer's digital line has an advance curve that has a defined full advance, doesn't it?
 
o0norton0o said:
I wouldn't lay all the blame for where your bike seems to make it's best power at the feet of the EI you chose. There's a bunch of other stuff to consider, like the camshaft design, the engine compression ratio, valve timing, porting, carb choice, exhaust and muffler choice... Lots of stuff effect where your bike makes power...

I have my original stock cam, higher than normal compression (never measured), and 30mm dual amals with a digital boyer (red box) timed @ 31* at 5000 rpm's. My bike's power comes on strong at about 4000 rpm. I had another norton owner ride my bike and ask if it was a combat engine because it responds so strongly to the throttle...

There's more than a few different options to chose from, which determin the character of your engine... I admit when I made my own choices, I did so without any expert help, so I'm lucky that I am pretty happy with how my engine runs and where it makes it's power... I recall someone knowlegeable here saying that the stock cam was a good mid range power cam, and that some of the high performance cams didn't have such good midrange power. I'm glad I got the more "streetable" cam, 'cause I'm just cruising around on it...

I know that the boyer has it's critics. I've never had a problem with either one I've used on my commando. I know they are reputed to not handle low voltage as well as some other EI's, ... but I've never had a failure in 40 years on my bike.

.
Click to expand...
When I consider that it slowed down when I switched from points to Boyer in the early 80s, and that was the change, yes I think the Boyer advance curve had a lot to do with it. I like the idea of not timing it at 5000 RPM too, suckers like to run backwards across the garage floor.
 
I am really happy with my Mk 4 Boyer. Very different advance curve than the Mk 3, at least in my opinion. Idling is much smoother (likely less advance), and fully compatible with electric start.

All have their good and bad points, but I have never been left stranded by a Boyer - has to be worth something...

FWIW
 
32 years with my old Boyar and now I just love my Joe Hunt maggie even better.

Ashley
 
I fitted the newer Trispark two years ago to my MK3 Commando and it runs beautiful through the rev range set at 28 degrees. I beleave the earlier units were not totaly reliable. Can't say others are not as good but i am totaly pleased with mine. I would have no hesitaition of fitting another Trispark and absolutley no kickback at all.

ELLIS
 
Super Seven said:
I like the idea of not timing it at 5000 RPM too, suckers like to run backwards across the garage floor.
Click to expand...

An old Triumph question: How many feet can you time a Triumph in?

Regarding your initial question about EIs: For street riding it really shouldn't matter what EI you use because virtually all of them achieve full advance at or near 3000 RPM, which, in my experience is where a Commando comes alive. Individuals that race may well need to purchase programmable EIs, and dyno time, to squeeze every erg out of the advance curve.

Best.
 
ELLIS said:
I fitted the newer Trispark two years ago to my MK3 Commando and it runs beautiful through the rev range set at 28 degrees. I beleave the earlier units were not totaly reliable. Can't say others are not as good but i am totaly pleased with mine. I would have no hesitaition of fitting another Trispark and absolutley no kickback at all.

ELLIS
Click to expand...

I've been using a Trispark since last summer and it has been fantastic so far too. Starts easy, runs like a dream, and I never have to worry about kickback.
 
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