Does an 850 Handle Better than a 750 ??

I can say that the Commando and the Ducati don't have anything at all in common handling-wise.
The Ducati has a long wheelbase (1500mm vs 1440mm for the Commando), and the steering head angle is 60.5 degrees vs 63 degrees for the 750 Commando). My Seeley Mk 4 has a 1415mm wheelbase.
The 'handles as if on rails' description of Ducatis is accurate. What they don't say is 'just try changing direction'. They steer like an Ocean Liner.
On the track I guess this would give more confidence, except the ground clearance was a limiting factor, but on the road, minor corrections become a major effort compared to the Norton.
So the 'on the point of instability' philosophy really doesn't apply to the Ducati.

With regard to the Featherbed, it's been pointed out that they quickly disappeared from the tracks after the introduction of the Commando, and they weigh a ton in comparison (the Domi frame, at least).
I don't think that the Domi frame is any heavier than the Commando + ISOs.
It might be lighter, in fact.
At 400lbs + or - the 650ss is significantly lighter than a standard 750 Commando.

Glen
 
Wilson quotes the Commando frame as 10lb lighter, FWIW....

Though if that is like for like ie: ex swingarm et al, he doesn't clarify...
 
You never see the weight of bike plus rider quoted.... wonder how many of us could afford to lose that 10lbs? :) Also, rider weight is held quite high on the bike, so could have a bigger effect on the handling.
 
You never see the weight of bike plus rider quoted.... wonder how many of us could afford to lose that 10lbs? :) Also, rider weight is held quite high on the bike, so could have a bigger effect on the handling.
Hi Mart,
Yes, I certainly agree, losing weight would be the best performance enhancement I could give my bikes with the added bonus of possibly living a longer more active life to enjoy them, hell, I hate being human sometimes, I don’t take notice of my own advice!
As a callow teenager I was like the drover’s dog, all prck and ribs, at 90kg, roll the power on my trident and I couldn’t stop my arse from sliding off the seat. Now it and my commando have to haul around another 40 kg (I’m 6’6” and still too short for my weight). They must groan under the effort.
The same applies to aircraft where originally people were calculated to weigh a generic 77kg. Now using actual weights I effectively weigh close to two standard people, puts quite a dent in a four seater’s performance envelope.
I see the most extreme efforts to cut down empty weight on aircraft to the point of fitting lighter, cheaper two ply tyres rather than the better 6ply. A meal or two less and a run around the block would more than compensate for the tiny saving.
But back to our bikes, particularly with the trident, I look at various engine plates, mufflers brackets etc and are a little disappointed that they didn’t make a better effort at lightening some components.
Mind you a Commando is still a pretty svelte bike for it’s capacity.
Alan
 
Wilson quotes the Commando frame as 10lb lighter, FWIW....

Though if that is like for like ie: ex swingarm et al, he doesn't clarify...
That might be frame only.
The steel Commando cradle and front iso are heavy chunks.
Forum member Lance had both bare frames on hand to weigh and gave us all the details.-

Commando – Some sort of 750, I think. No IDBare Frame: 28.5lbsFrame and Swingarm: 36.5lbsFrame, Swingarm and Isolastic Plates: 49.0lbs

Note - later type Commando swing arms are heavier and a whole lot stiffer. The MK3 even moreso. Weight well spent though. So are the ISOs, in my opinion!

Featherbed – 1955Bare Frame: 32.5lbsFrame and Swingarm: 40.0lbsFrame, Swingarm and Engine Plates: 43.0 lbs.


So just six pounds heavier for an early Commando setup with Isos vs roadgoing Featherbed, a little less than I would have guessed.


Glen
 
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I can say that the Commando and the Ducati don't have anything at all in common handling-wise.
The Ducati has a long wheelbase (1500mm vs 1440mm for the Commando), and the steering head angle is 60.5 degrees vs 63 degrees for the 750 Commando). My Seeley Mk 4 has a 1415mm wheelbase.
The 'handles as if on rails' description of Ducatis is accurate. What they don't say is 'just try changing direction'. They steer like an Ocean Liner.
On the track I guess this would give more confidence, except the ground clearance was a limiting factor, but on the road, minor corrections become a major effort compared to the Norton.
So the 'on the point of instability' philosophy really doesn't apply to the Ducati.

With regard to the Featherbed, it's been pointed out that they quickly disappeared from the tracks after the introduction of the Commando, and they weigh a ton in comparison (the Domi frame, at least).
My Rickman is more aligned with the Ducati than a Commando, absolutely brilliant on long fast sweeps, stays rock solid on its line, but much harder work in tight corners and when you need to change direction, The Seeley chassis is far better at that, but so is a Yamaha TD/R or TZ twin.

I started racing in '75, the Commando was big in production racing in the UK at the time, even then and onwards for a couple of years, no featherbed bikes (Atlas) were to be seen.

But a lot of production bikes were also raced in the open classes to make your trip to the races more worthwhile. In the open class racing there were still plenty of heavier road style featherbeds with Norton, Triumph and BSA engines, (and of course other frames inspired by the featherbed including the YDS7 style that spawned the TZ). What killed them wasn't the Commando as much as the Japanese two and four stroke bikes, and then people starting to make frames for those.

However, march on to classic racing and the featherbed was back with a bang in newly manufactured Manx form, lighter and with steeper head angles and longer shocks and 18" rims to up the instability a bit, and stickier tyres.

Of course, this was alongside the spawning of a million Seeley and Rob North replicas.
 
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You never see the weight of bike plus rider quoted.... wonder how many of us could afford to lose that 10lbs? :) Also, rider weight is held quite high on the bike, so could have a bigger effect on the handling.
Only 10lbs? Wow. I probably need to lose 30lbs to get to my fighting weight!

I started to do a little exercise, so far each pound of fat which might be going, is being replaced with a pound of muscle.
 
Only 10lbs? Wow. I probably need to lose 30lbs to get to my fighting weight!

I started to do a little exercise, so far each pound of fat which might be going, is being replaced with a pound of muscle.
Well I managed to be on the winning open class team at 17 stone in a 7-hour endurance race... on Honda C90s.
Being 6'10" there's not much scope for weight loss short of amputation :oops:
 
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