Commando prices surprising....

marshg246 said:

Most of my Norton and Triumph customers are in the 40s and 50s and got into British bikes in their late 30s and 40s. They are generally too busy to hang out here with us old guys! Small sample size but there is still an allure to motorcycles that look like motorcycles. So many modern bikes look like a couple of wheels with an uncomfortable mess in-between, IMHO.

I've owned Triumphs since 1968 so I'm certainly not against them, but what the devil? Is there a frame and engine somewhere in there and I assume a cup is need to ride it. Maybe it stings like the wasp it resembles? Probably fast though


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Those ones remind me more of a Praying mantis....

KiwiShane said:

Those ones remind me more of a Praying mantis....

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Oh, you're right - the head(light) looks like it was modeled after a Praying Mantis head!

acotrel said:

A lot of young guys look at our old bikes with envy. They don't realise why we have them. Usually it is because we had them back then and kept them. The only modern bike I have ridden was a VFR400 Honda. It did everything perfectly. I think the kids ride those sorts of bikes and never know why old bikes are so attractive. When I ride a motorcycle, I like to feel the hairs growing on my chest. If you ride an H2 Kawasaki two-stroke fast, it will probably scare you shitless - that is not what I am talking about. A 1963 Triumph Bonneville is the real deal. A Commando would be good, but it is de-tuned Atlas. A Norton 650 SS might be the best. But the 1963 Bonneville handles just as good.
My brother has a friend who has a 1963 Bonneville. He walked out of a shop to discover some bikie gang members loading it into a utility truck.

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Al if you really do think a commando is a de-tuned atlas you are seriously mistaken mate

And a 63 Bonneville does not handle on par with a 650ss with it's Featherbed frame.
The Norton 650 ss was entered in the Thruxton 500 Production Race three times and won three times. It won by a large margin against Triumph Bonnevilles and all the other big Brit bikes.
Thruxton organizers politely asked Syd Lawton to refrain from entering it for the fourth year in order to " Give the other manufacturers a chance at winning"

Glen

marshg246 said:

Most of my Norton and Triumph customers are in the 40s and 50s and got into British bikes in their late 30s and 40s. They are generally too busy to hang out here with us old guys! Small sample size but there is still an allure to motorcycles that look like motorcycles. So many modern bikes look like a couple of wheels with an uncomfortable mess in-between, IMHO.

I've owned Triumphs since 1968 so I'm certainly not against them, but what the devil? Is there a frame and engine somewhere in there and I assume a cup is need to ride it. Maybe it stings like the wasp it resembles? Probably fast though


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The good thing about modern Triumph they cater to all sorts of riders from sports bikes as above to cruisers, old school bobbers, Bonnies, triples, scrambler and my fav old school Cafe Thruxtons and now developing a full on dirt bike, all my life I have invested in new British bikes as well a few new Honda dirt bikes from leaving school to now, I am now happy with my old Norton bought new back in 76 and now my second Triumph Thruxton first one a new 2013 and now my 2016 Thruxton S I bought new in 2018, I still ride my 2006 Honda CRF450X also brought new, not to many motorcycle manufacturers these days who cater to all different riders choices, yes Japanese manufacturers do and for all ages, so really good to see Triumph are doing their best to do the same, yes my Triumph is put together in Thailand but is still British owned and what other manufacturers have done the same to stay alive and to keep bikes where people can still afford them and most manufacturers source their parts world wide as not everything on bikes is made at the factory they are assembled in.

Ashley

baz said:

Al if you really do think a commando is a de-tuned atlas you are seriously mistaken mate

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Baz you got to remember Al has never rode a well set up Commando on the road or not many bikes on the road for that matter for him to compare a Commando to a old road going Atlas he has no idea, the 650 Slimline Featherbeds were a lot smoother than the 750 Atlas to ride, but he also states that his Sealy he races has a stock Commando motor and he also keeps telling us its pretty quick around the race track, not bad for a detuned Atlas and the John Players Commandos did pretty good on the track in their days, but the Commando's were made for the road and in their days where unapprouchable and now 50 years and still going strong.

Ashley

worntorn said:

And a 63 Bonneville does not handle on par with a 650ss with it's Featherbed frame.
The Norton 650 ss was entered in the Thruxton 500 Production Race three times and won three times. It won by a large margin against Triumph Bonnevilles and all the other big Brit bikes.
Thruxton organizers politely asked Syd Lawton to refrain from entering it for the fourth year in order to " Give the other manufacturers a chance at winning"

Glen

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Mmmm ....... are you sure about that? I think the 64 Triumph frame was improved when Doug Hele joined them. Also in 64 Syd Lawton switched to Bonnies and won the Thruxton for the next few years so I think it was him that had the winning formula.

I hope you are right though as I own a 1964 650ss with a Lawton & Wilson brass dealer plate on the mudguard although the bike was not originally supplied by him.

Syd Lawton was my local dealer when I was too young to ride and I often browsed in his shop - a small somewhat run down shed like structure next to the railway line but it certainly delivered.

EstuaryBoy said:

Hiding my head in shame here.... 'somebody I know'... ;-)... has an amount of 'O' gauge model railway locos hanging on his wall, collected over the years....
Current value??? F*ck all!! There is zip/zero/niente interest in the stuff these days. Adverts spring up, and stay there, week upon week.
One large retailer commissioned a range of locos/carriages/wagons, within six months they were being advertised 'at cost'.
My bike attracts very little attention from youngsters, luckily I've never bought 'for investment'. As I've said before, I reckon it could easily end up as 'landfill' because I reckon the marketplace when I expect/hope to die will have shrunk due to a myriad of mitigating circumstances.....

IMHO

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There's hope. Overheard the 3 Grandkids discussing which of my bikes they would have when I shuffle off this mortal coil.

The UK market is weird at the moment.
One big issue is nobody is spending money right now, but with some exceptions... Lady Di's Escort Turbo, anyone... £650K??? (still cheaper than Prince Andrew's Escort @£12M though )
I've got a rare model Impreza P1 which seems to get more valuable by the week - still trying to work that one out.
Our economy is tanking, inflation is running seemingly out of control with no-one at the wheel. Lots of factors, but probably better to not get into the political details.

Our parcel delivery driver was telling me he's never been less busy, and for months now.
Commando prices seem fairly stagnant, but at this time of year things slow down anyway - the riding season is well past its peak. If I was wanting to sell for top dollar I would hold off until March/April next year, when everyone's keen to get something for the summer (Northern Hemisphere... )
Basket cases seem to be selling for healthy prices though, and parts are definitely not getting cheaper. I suspect this indicates the market is still in reasonable health overall.

Just keep telling the kids that if Keanu rides one, they must be dead cool, right?

ashman said:

Baz you got to remember Al has never rode a well set up Commando on the road or not many bikes on the road for that matter for him to compare a Commando to a old road going Atlas he has no idea, the 650 Slimline Featherbeds were a lot smoother than the 750 Atlas to ride, but he also states that his Sealy he races has a stock Commando motor and he also keeps telling us its pretty quick around the race track, not bad for a detuned Atlas and the John Players Commandos did pretty good on the track in their days, but the Commando's were made for the road and in their days where unapprouchable and now 50 years and still going strong.

Ashley

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But an atlas engine with its dished low compression pistons is in effect a de tuned commando engine!

acotrel said:

A lot of young guys look at our old bikes with envy. They don't realise why we have them. Usually it is because we had them back then and kept them. The only modern bike I have ridden was a VFR400 Honda. It did everything perfectly. I think the kids ride those sorts of bikes and never know why old bikes are so attractive. When I ride a motorcycle, I like to feel the hairs growing on my chest. If you ride an H2 Kawasaki two-stroke fast, it will probably scare you shitless - that is not what I am talking about. A 1963 Triumph Bonneville is the real deal. A Commando would be good, but it is de-tuned Atlas. A Norton 650 SS might be the best. But the 1963 Bonneville handles just as good.
My brother has a friend who has a 1963 Bonneville. He walked out of a shop to discover some bikie gang members loading it into a utility truck.

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Re ;"A Detuned Atlas "
I think you are a little wrong there!!
Never knew a 750 Commandos that came with dished pistons at 7:5 : 1!!!
You must have your wires a bit crossed

nortonmews said:

Mmmm ....... are you sure about that? I think the 64 Triumph frame was improved when Doug Hele joined them. Also in 64 Syd Lawton switched to Bonnies and won the Thruxton for the next few years so I think it was him that had the winning formula.

I hope you are right though as I own a 1964 650ss with a Lawton & Wilson brass dealer plate on the mudguard although the bike was not originally supplied by him.

Syd Lawton was my local dealer when I was too young to ride and I often browsed in his shop - a small somewhat run down shed like structure next to the railway line but it certainly delivered.

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Lawton didn't switch to Bonnevilles in 64 as he won the Thruxton that year with the 650ss. That was when he was asked not to enter it again with the Norton in order to give other manufacturers a chance.

The 650 ss also won Production races at Silverstone. Additionally, in 1962 Bruce Mainsmith tested the new 650ss for speed at M.I.R.A. and found it had a 10 mph greater top speed than the Bonneville tested earlier that year.

The quote from Al was that the 63 Bonneville had handling equal to a 650 ss.
Doug Hele thought the handling of the 63 Bonneville was quite atrocious and he set about changing that.
Hele gave the 1964 Bonneville a complete frame redesign and coaxed additional power from the engine. He also commissioned the building of 52 special variants, Thruxton Bonnevilles. These bikes had the engine power bumped to 52bhp, an Mitchenall Avonaire fairing fitted and many other tweaks. One of these was given Hele's personal attention for the upcoming Thruxton Production Race.
Ironically, the bike that beat his new Thruxton Bonnie in its first race was also his design, the Norton 650 ss , the 1964 Thruxton winner.

I could post more info and direct quotes from Hele where he discusses the advantages of the Featherbed frame over other types of the era, but I am off topic.





Glen

Gee, you get one letter wrong.............

Speaking of which we hosted my wife's parents 60th. 10lb of mussels, not muscles, and 15 lobsters. Cost me a small fortune just in the crustaceans alone. Along with the corn and my wife's 4 cheese mac n cheese it was a cholesterol feast.

Back to the topic: I was just renewing my Hagerty insurance and their value estimator said my bike's value had gone down. I've never thought of it as an investment, just my favorite ride.

mind you, there’s a Vincent White Shadow up for £300k in London at the moment!

JimNH said:

The answer lies in the survey of ages frequenting this forum. Commandos were the bikes of our youth.

The same happened with cars like Model A Fords. An older generation loved them and the prices went up. Those folks died off , prices went way down, and the mussel cars took over as the cars of a groups youth. Maybe in the future computer tuned cars with those ridiculous wings will be collected. I can hardly stomach them but perhaps my parents may have thought of the mussel cars the same way,,nah.

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Whilst I agree with the sentiment that we all lust after objects of teenage desire, but can't always fulfil those fantasies until a later date, I for one was more a car buff 'til sheer economics drove me onto two wheels.

First 'classic' vehicles had four wheels, and Commando never featured on my biking radar until after I'd had the fun of chasing obsolete parts for my first 'amour' (P11). Mk3 seemed the 'sensible' and 'practical' option as a 'one and only' choice, descriptions I'd have avoided like the plague in my youth

Turned out to be a good call, too...

(Been trying to apply the same criteria chasing a 'classic' pick up truck... Alas the top contender is Morris Minor... Aaaargh!!)

EstuaryBoy said:

Whilst I agree with the sentiment that we all lust after objects of teenage desire, but can't always fulfil those fantasies until a later date, I for one was more a car buff 'til sheer economics drove me onto two wheels.

First 'classic' vehicles had four wheels, and Commando never featured on my biking radar until after I'd had the fun of chasing obsolete parts for my first 'amour' (P11). Mk3 seemed the 'sensible' and 'practical' option as a 'one and only' choice, descriptions I'd have avoided like the plague in my youth

Turned out to be a good call, too...

(Been trying to apply the same criteria chasing a 'classic' pick up truck... Alas the top contender is Morris Minor... Aaaargh!!)

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I'd love a moggy pickup
But I'd prefer the Morris Oxford pickup
But prices for these beasts are still extremely high

nortonmews said:

I think the 64 Triumph frame was improved when Doug Hele joined them.

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Not until 66, that is the year the headstock angle changed, so my 65 has the same headstock angle as the first unit 650 in 63. Doug would probably have tried the headstock angle out on the racing bikes before 66 though.

baz said:

Generally the Japanese bikes from the same era are more expensive than British bikes now
Have you seen the price of a a fizzy these days
Or an Elsie or RD ?
Admittedly a lot of them are for sale prices
And not what they actually sell for

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Hi,
I know what an RD is but what is an Elsie and a fizzy?

LC Yamaha 2 stroke, and FS1E Yamaha moped of the 1970s.

This is a topic that has always interested me. It's the question 'who will love my stuff when I am gone?" It's hard to say. Vincent has achieved a cult status that now transcends the years. Brough Superior has already cemented its place in history. Triumph, with it's modern varents will probably solder on. Maybe the interest that Keanu Reeves has shown in the Norton brand will have a similar effect. There is already a bit of mystique around the brand. I don't know. To the wheelie prone kids of today our choice of mounts probably look very stodgy and boring. Collecting and riding older motorcycles is a pretty recent turn of events being just a little over 100 years old.

I do like to old prayer "Please don't let my wife sell my bikes for what I told her I bought them for!"