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cNw and 961

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycles (Modern)' started by cNw, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. cNw

    cNw VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Hi all,

    I have talked to some people on the forum and have started thinking about offering some parts, upgrades, modifications for the 961's

    This would not happen right away but I just wanted to throw this out to see what you guys think and get some feedback

    - Is there a need/market for someone to offer the above ?
    - What parts/upgrades are you guys wanting to see ?

    Thanks for any input

    Matt / Colorado Norton Works

    www.coloradonortonworks.com
     
  2. G81 Can Cycle

    G81 Can Cycle VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Does this mean I can send out a donor 961 and get a complete rebuild with updated and upgraded parts? LOL
     
  3. BPHORSEGUY

    BPHORSEGUY

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    As you can see if you have been reading, 961 owners are not afraid to spend money on their toys and they are clamoring for after market gear.
    My pet peeve is the stock footpegs! I would also love to see whatever you can come up with!
     
  4. cNw

    cNw VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Actually what I would do if you send me your 961 is install a bunch of old parts I have removed from Commandos over the years. How about a chain oiler, maybe some Amals and even convert to points ignition ? I have all kinds of goodies

    Matt / Colorado Norton Works

    www.coloradonortonworks.com
     
  5. TonyA

    TonyA

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    I would like to see a replacement for the rear brake pedal. I do not like the way it looks. I reminds me of a gear shifter. I think the round peg unscrews and can be replace with a flat pedal .
     
  6. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    I would think an exhaust system would be the best place to start.
     
  7. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    How about a replacement airbox that effectively separates the vapor/oil droplets coming from the breather, and the air filter.
    Perhaps a larger lower chamber that would hold the oil that presipitates out of the vapor and prevents oil fouling the intake on hard braking.
    Oh yeah, and make it look good too. :lol:

    A shortie side stand. I'm still trying to get one from Norton.

    I'll second BPHORSEGUY on the the replacement footpegs. Spring loaded of course.

    Minimalist bikini fairing like the 78 Guzzi Lemans for 961 CR.

    Metal fuel tank, with the indents further forward so that the knees of riders with long legs dont stick out in the breeze.
     
  8. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    How about isolatics for a 961 just for the retro classic look.
    We all know that It can't be a real Commando without isolastics.
     
  9. contours

    contours VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    I second that motion.
     
  10. swooshdave

    swooshdave

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Good grief.
     
  11. dimitri

    dimitri

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    I really, REALLY like the way you work with CNW.
    Asking feedback from owners instead of making something and trying to convince us we need it.

    As for me... My 961 is 4 years old now and i rarely use it. It's more fun to ride my '74 850.
    I really like the look, and it seems wrong to me to pay a lot of money for a bike like the 961 to change that look.
    Apart from the mirrors, i left mine standard.

    From a technical point of view, there are many small improvements to make. And i would be interested in these when someone makes them (and reasonably priced)
    • chainguard (mine cracked, was replaced in warranty and cracked again so i removed it. I'll strengthen the tabs and have it powder coated)
    • front headlight shell (poor design, shattered in pieces with only the very small impact of falling at low speed, i replaced it by a metal shell)
    • exhaust (system is heavy, expensive for what it is and mine also cracked at the rear (crossover) mount).
    • sprockets (took a month to order a countershaft sprocket, and total cost of sprocket/chain kit was over €400, about $450)
    • airbox (mine is troublefree so far, but most of them are having problems as mentioned before)
    • tank (the plastic tank is a poor design and many, including mine, started to leak in less than 2 years. Was replaced, but will it happen again?)
    • seat and pillion pegs (i like the option, but dislike the look of the Norton dual seat. For the few times i take a passenger i rather change the seat to a bonneville style seat and ride the rest of the year with my nice looking solo seat. Removing the seat is as much work as removing the seat cowl)
    • you joked about it, but if there was a complete kit to convert the 961 to carbs, i would actually be interested. At one moment i was so angry at the bike that i wanted to try it myself. Removing the complete ecu, adapt a ducati ignition system and carb it. Turned out my ECU was shot. Luckily within warranty!
    • Another one (includes option above if you want) i would be interested in (don't shoot me) is a kit to adapt a modern triumph twin engine in the frame. One more thing i thought about when i was angry, and before the first (britalmoto) conversion actually was reality. The triumph engine is easy tunable and dependable as hell. My thruxton has over 100.000 miles without being stranded one single time. Might be interested to see how their next generation engine (2016) turns out.
    For me, this is what i want the bike to be. Looks and handling of the 961, ease of maintenance of a modern carbed bike, spare parts availability/price, dependable and a million options to various levels of tuning.

    Not trying to bash the 961 here. I am proud of my bike, and will ride it occasionally, but i am not hiding it is far from perfect. Hey, that does make it a 'real' commando, yes?

    Dimitri

    The britalbike 961/triumph thing:
    [​IMG]
     
  12. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Now that would be my fantasy bike.
    Retro evolve the 961:

    Pull out all the EFI electronics, throttle bodies and injectors.
    Rig up a setup like the carbed Hinckley Bonnevilles.
    Crank triggers connected to an electronic ignitor box and throttle position sensor on pair of 39mm Keihin FCR carbs.
    It's do-able. The Hinckley Scrambler has a 270 degree crank like the 961. So its igniter box would work.
    No more EFI maps to screw with. That would be great.
    If you ever look at pictures for Dreer's 952 prototype, it had FCR carbs.
     
    Jean-Mi likes this.
  13. bwolfie

    bwolfie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Just an observation: How bad is the 961's EFI system that it has it's owners fantasizing about carburetors.

    Where did they go wrong.
    Heck, the automotive aftermarket has many really good EFI systems that are easily user tune able.
    Many are self learning and work many times better than any carb could.

    I have read of other motorcycle manufacturers having EFI issues also.
     
  14. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Bwolfie,
    I don’t think it is a problem with the design of the EFI system by Norton.
    I’m sure a stock 961 with stock exhaust runs just fine.

    However, I have an aftermarket exhaust which drives the EFI ECU crazy. Still these bikes are not mass produced, there are very few in private hand. There is no real financial incentive for the private sector to build custom map solutions for our custom exhausts. So the owners have to struggle to find suitable maps for their bikes. Norton does produce new ones, but their pace is quite slow. I just recently had my 961 remapped with map 90. It produced a significant improvement in overall performance with my exhaust system. I had to wait since December 2013 for it. That's the problem.

    My fantasy of retuning the bike to carbs is just my normal rant because I’m an old carb guy. I’m much more comfortable swapping jets and needles, than loading software onto smartphones and the such.
    I also like the clicking of the flat slides on FCR’s.
     
  15. contours

    contours VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    In my humble opinion there is nothing easier to work with than EFI and an ECU system. I might be biased since I write software, but what could be better than having visual feedback and the ability to tweak or build a custom tune map?! I did back flips after I first installed the software interface, plugged in the cable and ran it for my Daytona 955i - I'll never buy another carburetor based bike again!
     
  16. BritTwit

    BritTwit VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    contours

    In the perfect universe, where the tools are available, yes I agree with you.
    But in the case of the 961, the software is not available, to owners anyway.
    No power commander available yet either, as far as I can tell.
    Even the designers, and sellers of the exhaust systems for the 961 rely on Norton maps rather then build their own.
    Wonder why?

    This is unacceptable to me.
    Give me an AFM meter, O2 sensors in the headers, and hand full of carb jets, and needles and I'll spend an afternoon or 2 dialing in my carbed 961 and exhaust. Won't need a dyno either.
    And yes, my hands will smell of fuel.
    I know I'm spitting into the wind, times have changed, but there were things about the old school ways that were simply easier.
     
  17. contours

    contours VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Ah, I see. I'm on a steep learning curve here. I agree it is unacceptable!
     
  18. BPHORSEGUY

    BPHORSEGUY

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    My bike runs better then any carb bike I've owned. But Fred I's right that it does not run as well as the best EFI bike I've ever owned. Mv Agusta and several other of the exotic verity have the same issue.
     
  19. cNw

    cNw VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Hi all,

    Thanks for all the feedback so far. Keep it coming....I'm taking notes

    Matt / Colorado Norton Works

    www.coloradonortonworks.com
     
  20. richard-7

    richard-7

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Bar end mirrors, gel grips, tank protectors, custom indicator lights, custom fluid reservoirs all specific to the 961. I've been hunting for Gel grips.
     

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