Clutch

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L.A.B. said:
Actually says one full turn in the pre-Mk3 and Mk3 manuals (but 1/4 turn in the early Commando manual).
Clutch
Click to expand...

For more confusion on this subject, see Service Releases
N26 (December 1970):
"Clutch slip can be caused by incorrect free play on the
clutch push rod or lack of free play on the clutch cable.
To adjust, slacken off as far as possible the cable adjuster
at the handlebars control. Remove the large slotted plug
on the primary chaincase to gain access to the diaphragm
spring centre adjuster locknut. Slacken the locknut and
then, using a screwdriver, screw the slotted adjuster gently
home until contact with the clutch push rod can be felt.
At this stage unscrew the adjuster one quarter turn. Now,
holding the adjuster with a screwdriver to prevent movement,
tighten the locknut fully. Clutch push rod adjustment
is now correct and the plug in the chaincase can be
replaced."

and

N75 (March 1972):
"The factory recommendation for adjustment at
the clutch pushrod up to the present time has
been to screw the adjuster in to give no free
movement, then back the adjuster off one quarter
turn. Field’jexperience has resulted in the use
of two different settings: one quarter turn for
motorcycles on which the clutch has bedded down
or one whole turn where a new clutch is in use.
Further tests reveal no problems from the
continued use of the one whole turn setting, rather
the reverse. It is for this reason that we have now
consolidated on the one whole turn setting which will
now be used on production and shown in all new service
publications."
 
baz said:
Have you tried adjusting the clutch to less than half a turn yet?
Click to expand...
No, not yet. Probably tomorrow, if the weather is kind enough to allow a ride, just to be sure the clutch isn't slipping.
 
NickZ said:
For more confusion on this subject, see Service Releases
N26 (December 1970):
"Clutch slip can be caused by incorrect free play on the
clutch push rod or lack of free play on the clutch cable.
To adjust, slacken off as far as possible the cable adjuster
at the handlebars control. Remove the large slotted plug
on the primary chaincase to gain access to the diaphragm
spring centre adjuster locknut. Slacken the locknut and
then, using a screwdriver, screw the slotted adjuster gently
home until contact with the clutch push rod can be felt.
At this stage unscrew the adjuster one quarter turn. Now,
holding the adjuster with a screwdriver to prevent movement,
tighten the locknut fully. Clutch push rod adjustment
is now correct and the plug in the chaincase can be
replaced."

and

N75 (March 1972):
"The factory recommendation for adjustment at
the clutch pushrod up to the present time has
been to screw the adjuster in to give no free
movement, then back the adjuster off one quarter
turn. Field’jexperience has resulted in the use
of two different settings: one quarter turn for
motorcycles on which the clutch has bedded down
or one whole turn where a new clutch is in use.
Further tests reveal no problems from the
continued use of the one whole turn setting, rather
the reverse. It is for this reason that we have now
consolidated on the one whole turn setting which will
now be used on production and shown in all new service
publications."
Click to expand...
So that's suggesting anywhere between 1/4 and 1 full turn. To see if it helps, I'll start with 1/2 a turn, provided I avoid slip. If that doesn't help, @EstuaryBoy has suggested a different procedure to set it up, without warranty! I'll give that a go and report back.

I guess it's possible I have wear on the operating body (https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/15064/clutch-op-body), or an incorrect length pushrod?
 
Mart UK said:
I guess it's possible I have wear on the operating body (https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/15064/clutch-op-body), or an incorrect length pushrod?
Click to expand...

If there's wear then it will be the operating lever roller and sleeve rather than the operating body:
andover-norton.co.uk

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk
andover-norton.co.uk

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk
andover-norton.co.uk

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.
andover-norton.co.uk
 
OK. There's no play when adjusted and only the small up and down movement (rotation) of the lever when the cable is loosened off. So I think that's OK. Hopefully, it is simply being adjusted 1 full turn out. Should find out tomorrow.
 
Mart UK said:
So that's suggesting anywhere between 1/4 and 1 full turn. To see if it helps, I'll start with 1/2 a turn, provided I avoid slip. If that doesn't help, @EstuaryBoy has suggested a different procedure to set it up, without warranty! I'll give that a go and report back.

I guess it's possible I have wear on the operating body (https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/15064/clutch-op-body), or an incorrect length pushrod?
Click to expand...
I seem to remember that there was an outer cable extender as an accessory: a stepped sleeve with slot in it, so can be fitted over inner cable easily. Could try J and J cables in Warwickshire?
 
jan nelder said:
I seem to remember that there was an outer cable extender as an accessory: a stepped sleeve with slot in it, so can be fitted over inner cable easily. Could try J and J cables in Warwickshire?
Click to expand...
Jan, I did think about making a spacer from my old (replaced) adjuster, by cutting it down and filing down the threaded end to the same I.D. as the O.D. of the metal end of the cable outer sleeve, so it can fit snuggly inside my new adjuster. I.e. cable sleeve into (adapted)old adjuster, old adjuster into new adjuster. Needs to be nice and tight fit though. But, I shouldn't need to do that, so thought I'd ask the question!
 
Mart UK said:
Jan, I did think about making a spacer from my old (replaced) adjuster, by cutting it down and filing down the threaded end to the same I.D. as the O.D. of the metal end of the cable outer sleeve, so it can fit snuggly inside my new adjuster. I.e. cable sleeve into (adapted)old adjuster, old adjuster into new adjuster. Needs to be nice and tight fit though. But, I shouldn't need to do that, so thought I'd ask the question!
Click to expand...
Those spacers are a common item. Ask your favorite vendors.
 
lazyeye6 said:
Those spacers are a common item. Ask your favorite vendors.
Click to expand...
I use one of those spacers on my commando clutch cable
But my clutch lever is from a Kawasaki so the cable fit is not standard
 
When nothing appears to be the problem I will pull out the cable cutters, chop off the nipple, solder on a new one and cut off the excess. You can go crazy thinking they made the cable correctly. I could show you a brand new frame that doesn't line up right. Last night I spent 6 hours making the new L/H side panel fit correctly...should only have taken 1/2 hour at the most.
 
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I readjusted the clutch (again) and have gained a touch over 1/4" on the handlebar adjuster. But a little clutch slip at 5,000rpm, throttle open. Will look at it again next week and try to find a happy compromise. Thanks for your advice and input.
 
Mart UK said:
But a little clutch slip at 5,000rpm, throttle open. Will look at it again next week and try to find a happy compromise.
Click to expand...

If you are getting clutch slip now when you weren't before then the clutch must be overadjusted so the lifter mechanism is partially lifting the diaphragm spring, therefore, shouldn't be a matter of compromise.
 
Mart UK said:
I readjusted the clutch (again) and have gained a touch over 1/4" on the handlebar adjuster. But a little clutch slip at 5,000rpm, throttle open. Will look at it again next week and try to find a happy compromise. Thanks for your advice and input.
Click to expand...
If the clutch adjuster screw is clearing the clutch push rod (when hot) it is not causing your clutch slip
 
Yes. I think I experienced clutch slip once or twice before this. The road was greasy and I thought it might be tyre slip. I don't usually ride the Norton at full throttle, 5,000rpm. So, it was in the back of my mind to check again. It's possible it may just be adjustment, as I did it cold and then went for a run.

I don't know whether the clutch plates have been replaced. There's no record of it. I last looked at the clutch about 2,500 miles ago and it looked OK and was fairly oil free. I'll see how I get on and if it's worsening, I'll check for oil / wear. I think I saw a discussion on here about the optimum thickness of the clutch pack.
 
Mart UK said:
I last looked at the clutch about 2,500 miles ago and it looked OK and was fairly oil free. I'll see how I get on and if it's worsening, I'll check for oil / wear.
Click to expand...

Slip can be caused by gear oil contamination.
(dynodave's seal)


Mart UK said:
I think I saw a discussion on here about the optimum thickness of the clutch pack.
Click to expand...

There certainly have been a few. Increasing stack height lightens clutch lever action but at the expense of clamping pressure so can be a matter of compromise.
 
As other have implied, if there is ANY gap between the clutch rod and adjuster with the handlebar lever loosened, then that adjustment cannot cause clutch slip. Everything can look fine, and you still have clutch slip. Stack height makes a big difference in the feel of the clutch but unless your plates are worn out, it's most likely not causing slip unless you have it really light. Warped plates, oily plates, too much primary oil, wrong primary oil, crappy material plates - those cause slip if things are properly adjusted.

I recently had a 650 Bonneville with new no name friction plates and good used steel plates slip bad with me riding (I'm heavy). No matter how much I tightened the springs, it still slipped. I changed the friction plates for some old used ones (maybe originals) I had, and the slip was gone.
 
marshg246 said:
As other have implied, if there is ANY gap between the clutch rod and adjuster with the handlebar lever loosened, then that adjustment cannot cause clutch slip. Everything can look fine, and you still have clutch slip. Stack height makes a big difference in the feel of the clutch but unless your plates are worn out, it's most likely not causing slip unless you have it really light. Warped plates, oily plates, too much primary oil, wrong primary oil, crappy material plates - those cause slip if things are properly adjusted.

I recently had a 650 Bonneville with new no name friction plates and good used steel plates slip bad with me riding (I'm heavy). No matter how much I tightened the springs, it still slipped. I changed the friction plates for some old used ones (maybe originals) I had, and the slip was gone.
Click to expand...
"Any gap between the clutch rod and adjuster with the handlebar lever loosened"... There is a small amount of wiggle / play in the actuator, when the cable adjuster at the handlebar lever is loosened, which I think means it's adjusted OK. But only checked when cold. The clutch isn't particularly light. It's more on the stiff side, but OK. When I first got the bike, finding neutral was more difficult. But no slip. So maybe I've managed to go too far the other way. :rolleyes:

What I find confusing is I did not have slip when the cable adjuster was as per the photos I posted (only about 1/4 in the perch). But, now the adjuster is properly seated in the perch at the bars (about 1/2 in), I do have a small amount of slip. Thinking back to when I last experienced what I now think was clutch slip, it was with my old cable and i also had the clutch adjusted so it sat ok in the perch.

So, I'm still thinking I may not be getting the rod adjustment in the primary end correct, perhaps because I did it when everything was cold. Also, I am finding it tricky to feel when the adjuster screw bottoms out, before winding it back out. This last attempt, I backed it out less, 1/4 turn vs. a full turn previously, then checked the actuator in the 'box still had some wiggle play, before then moving to the bars, adjusting for 1/8" a 1/4" play in the clutch lever. Once I'd done the adjuster at the lever, there was no longer any play in the actuator in the gearbox. But all done cold, and it was cold!

If the primary oil's causing slip, I'm stuck there. It's a mk3, so 20w50 and up to the level hole, buttoned up when it stops dripping.

I suspect novice user error. Sometime this week, I'll ride to get it all hot and then repeat the clutch adjustment and see if that helps.
 
Mart UK said:
"Any gap between the clutch rod and adjuster with the handlebar lever loosened"... There is a small amount of wiggle / play in the actuator, when the cable adjuster at the handlebar lever is loosened, which I think means it's adjusted OK. But only checked when cold. The clutch isn't particularly light. It's more on the stiff side, but OK. When I first got the bike, finding neutral was more difficult. But no slip. So maybe I've managed to go too far the other way. :rolleyes:

What I find confusing is I did not have slip when the cable adjuster was as per the photos I posted (only about 1/4 in the perch). But, now the adjuster is properly seated in the perch at the bars (about 1/2 in), I do have a small amount of slip. Thinking back to when I last experienced what I now think was clutch slip, it was with my old cable and i also had the clutch adjusted so it sat ok in the perch.

So, I'm still thinking I may not be getting the rod adjustment in the primary end correct, perhaps because I did it when everything was cold. Also, I am finding it tricky to feel when the adjuster screw bottoms out, before winding it back out. This last attempt, I backed it out less, 1/4 turn vs. a full turn previously, then checked the actuator in the 'box still had some wiggle play, before then moving to the bars, adjusting for 1/8" a 1/4" play in the clutch lever. Once I'd done the adjuster at the lever, there was no longer any play in the actuator in the gearbox. But all done cold, and it was cold!

If the primary oil's causing slip, I'm stuck there. It's a mk3, so 20w50 and up to the level hole, buttoned up when it stops dripping.

I suspect novice user error. Sometime this week, I'll ride to get it all hot and then repeat the clutch adjustment and see if that helps.
Click to expand...
It's not as complicated as you seem to be making it.

1) Look in the gearbox and make sure the cable ball is in the lever and that the lever is not pointing down.
2) Loosen the handlebar lever a quite a bit.
3) Tighten the rod adjuster until you feel a little resistance. Double check step 1.
4) Loosen and tighten the rod adjuster until you are sure you are just touching it.
5) Loosen the rod adjuster 1/2 turn and lock it there.
6) Do not think about the rod again for a few months :)

Adjust the lever so there's a little free play and to not look to see if you like the look of it in the housing :)

Ride the bike. If it slips, it's not the rod adjustment, it's not the cable, it's not the lever!
 
The last time I bought a clutch cable the nipple at the gearbox end had not been soldered on. I got my plumber to silver-solder it at the correct length
 
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