Came across a fatal bike crash yesterday

ashman

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Took the wife out for the first time on the new Thruxton yesterday, turning off from Woodford on to the Neurum Road just past the Villenuve road turn off near the old qurry we came across a fatal single bike crash, there is a tight right turn corner and looks like the ride missed it and kept going straight ahead into the bush and hit a tree, the cops had the road blocked off and where I turned around seen the rear tail light of the bike the cop told me it was a fatal.
I looked on the police site last night and the rider was a 50 year old so not sure if he was inexperienced, or didn't know the road or if speed was involved, this corner comes up very quickly and is a bit tight but there was no skid marks on the road where if happened other than that its a very good section of road.
My mates and myself have been taking this road for a very long time as it takes you off the main road between Woodford and Kilcoy.
My throught go to his family so sad indeed, I surrpose the cops will hit this road pretty hard now as a lot of bikes use this road and the Kilcoy motorcross track is just up the road from where it happened.

Ashley
 
There is a thing that happens on the Great Ocean Road in Victoria. A lot of older guys have the mid-life crisis and buy the Harley. Then find out the hard way that riding a motorcycle is best learned when you are very young. A ride around the Great Ocean Road on a Harley is lovely, but you need to know how to ride the bike - there are a lot of crashes and some of them are fatal. I was on a bus down there a few months ago and was talking to the driver who was also a bikie. He mentioned how many times he'd come across older guys who had crashed their new bikes on that road. The bends keep on coming and it is very easy to run out of road.
 
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Fully agree with you there Alan, but most of the old riders had been into bikes at a younger age then get married, have kids and get out of riding for about 30 to 40 years then decide hey I might buy a new bike, I always wanted a Harley, but they don't realize things have changed in those years of not riding, more traffic, bikes are a lot heavier, well the big Harlies anyway, roads area lot better these days but they still got to learn how to ride all over again, the idea of just jumping on a new bike and go for it just like I use to in my youth is not a good idea, in 45 years of riding and never not having a bike the only time off the road was injuries, licence suspension and yes I still make mistakes, but its been a very long time since I have been down, I am more aware of it and ride to the condistions and even better when you know the roads.

Ashley
 
I think the main issue for blokes who have had a long spell away from bikes is that they think like car drivers...
 
I think the main issue for blokes who have had a long spell away from bikes is that they think like car drivers...

And, if they jump on a modern sports bike, they’re no where near aligned with the power on tap.
 
I think the main issue for blokes who have had a long spell away from bikes is that they think like car drivers...


I don't ride my Seeley very often. However when I do, it only takes me about 5 laps of a race circuit to come up to about 95% of race speed. To achieve the extra 5% would take a few race meetings . When I started racing it in about 2003, I'd been away from racing for about 20 years. In every race, I was up with the lead bunch and I won a couple of races in the wet. If you think about how good it was when it was good, you will be that good again. The only modern bike I have ridden was a VFR400 Honda - it was perfect everywhere. You would have to be a dunce to crash it, even at it's top speed of 180 KPH - ( I didn't realise it was speed controlled).
 
I don't ride my Seeley very often. However when I do, it only takes me about 5 laps of a race circuit to come up to about 95% of race speed. To achieve the extra 5% would take a few race meetings . When I started racing it in about 2003, I'd been away from racing for about 20 years. In every race, I was up with the lead bunch and I won a couple of races in the wet. If you think about how good it was when it was good, you will be that good again. The only modern bike I have ridden was a VFR400 Honda - it was perfect everywhere. You would have to be a dunce to crash it, even at it's top speed of 180 KPH - ( I didn't realise it was speed controlled).

Very impressive race track performances - but its not actual machine control that is the issue ... its the riders expectation of how other traffic is likely to behave.. If you think like a car driver you are not expecting cars to pull out in front of you etc. You are not expecting to be brushed aside in a fit of controlled road rage .. If you are passing vehicles on a motorway you do not expect them to suddenly pull out and force you to brake , and above all you do not expect them to play silly buggers with your life.. Yes I know this stuff can happen to you in a car but it doesnt do so routinely .. If you half expect it then you are ready to deal with it . If you are not then you are on a fast track to being another accident casuality...
 
I live in a small country town in NE Victoria which is full of old people. There are a lot of minor accidents which, if you have them with a motorcycle are major accidents. When I first moved here, I had a couple of registered Yamaha RD250 LC. When riding them I always felt as though I had a great big target painted on my back. We've had accidents where elderly people have driven off roundabouts and into shops. It only takes one lame-brain and you can be dead. You could be the best rider in the world and still have it happen to you - and it is not unlikely. I had motorcycles on public roads until I was 29, then I went road racing - MUCH SAFER ! Everyone is going in the same direction and the risks are minimised. Generally those who have crashed in racing have done it to themselves.
I know I have a problem - as soon as my motor fires up, I am never going to crash again. I don't start my race bike at home, because as soon as it is running, I have an extremely strong urge to ride it. There is one cop living over the road and another just around the corner.
 
I was road racing as far back as the 1960s. There is no way I would jump on a modern sports bike and ride it on public roads. On a controlled race circuit would be bad enough. If it is fast, that is how fast you will ride it.
 
Well I have a ZZR 6 almost a a sports bike.. upto 60 its not exactly a qauntum leap awayfrom riding a Cdo until you get to about 90 and then the ZZR will pull away cameras etc permitting upto 150.. The biggest difference I found was adjusting from being a 70 to 90mph rider to being 120 mph rider .The Z will cruise quite happily at those speeds BUT you have to think so much further ahead and now of course with cameras everywhere its academic.

Not a jump on job , first I got a CG125 toget used to footcontrols being the wrong way round and then about 6months to actually get used not so much to the performance but the different thinking distances etc.
 
I think the main issue for blokes who have had a long spell away from bikes is that they think like car drivers...

A friend of my fathers who used to ride back in the 50's bought a 400 Kawasaki in the 80's and damn near killed himself. It had so much more power that the Indian Chief he rode back when he was young. He was smart enough to sell the bike before he killed himself.
He did give me 2 belt buckles from Sturgis that he had from the early 50's.
John in Texas
 
A friend of my fathers who used to ride back in the 50's bought a 400 Kawasaki in the 80's and damn near killed himself. It had so much more power that the Indian Chief he rode back when he was young. He was smart enough to sell the bike before he killed himself.
He did give me 2 belt buckles from Sturgis that he had from the early 50's.
John in Texas

Nice to have the belt buckles . Do not wish to dis your fathers friend but would imagine that an Indian chief would have roughly comparable top speed to an 80s Kawa 400 twin, though it would of course rev through the gears in a way that bthe Indiasn wouldnt. The biggest difference however would be in braking power.Disks do take some getting used to , and many born agains come unstuck here, they combine poor anticipation with grabbing a handful of front brake, lock up and come off
 
A twin leading shoe drum front brake will drop you onto the bitumen, long before a disc brake ever will. My front brake is twin high-speed steel discs with Lockheed calipers with asbestos pads, it only takes my forefinger to lock it at any speed. However, it is PREDICTABLE and comes off when I let go of it. I ride with three fingers and my thumb wrapped around the twin cable quick-action throttle and my finger on the brake lever. Virtually every race crash I ever had, was due to a drum front brake. I am still carrying injuries from the last one - which nearly killed me. It was a beautiful conical AJS 7R twin leader with carefully selected and fitted and adjusted linings. They should be banned !
What you are talking about are guys who have never known how to ride a motorcycle properly. This something a friend of mine pointed out about many elderly car drivers - they have never really known how to drive. If their car swaps ends in the wet, they are buggered.
 
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That is why old car drivers drive so slow, because they wouldn’t know what to do if they got into a skid!
 
That is why old car drivers drive so slow, because they wouldn’t know what to do if they got into a skid!

Well being an oldie would have to admit that I am cautious at road junctions , but as a general point
many oldies would know how to double declutch and to use engine braking and have driven cars that are inherently less stable than contempory kit. What I note in the UK is middle aged boy racers going round bends with compressed suspension. I do not know how far away they are from losing the plot ,more worrying is that they probably do not either.. The fact that one is driving a good car does not make the person behind the wheel a good driver.
 
A twin leading shoe drum front brake will drop you onto the bitumen, long before a disc brake ever will. My front brake is twin high-speed steel discs with Lockheed calipers with asbestos pads, it only takes my forefinger to lock it at any speed. However, it is PREDICTABLE and comes off when I let go of it. I ride with three fingers and my thumb wrapped around the twin cable quick-action throttle and my finger on the brake lever. Virtually every race crash I ever had, was due to a drum front brake. I am still carrying injuries from the last one - which nearly killed me. It was a beautiful conical AJS 7R twin leader with carefully selected and fitted and adjusted linings. They should be banned !

Alan , I remember your earlier posts on this topic and must confess did wonder if you had had either had an oval brake drum or slight wet or cold linings. I cant fault your riding style but would have to say that surely that is my point .. Three finger braking on a disk brake is more than suffient , three finger braking with a drum brake , unless the linings are soaked and the thing is on the point of locking up , will not make much impression on speed. A fist full of brake and down changing is necessary , but that same fist full of brake if applied in a moment of panic because of poor anticipation will see a disk brake lock up..Used to happen all the time in the uk with sports bikes..
When I worked at a Bike breakers me and a colleague used to refer to them as Flippers..
 
Alan , I remember your earlier posts on this topic and must confess did wonder if you had had either had an oval brake drum or slight wet or cold linings. I cant fault your riding style but would have to say that surely that is my point .. Three finger braking on a disk brake is more than suffient , three finger braking with a drum brake , unless the linings are soaked and the thing is on the point of locking up , will not make much impression on speed. A fist full of brake and down changing is necessary , but that same fist full of brake if applied in a moment of panic because of poor anticipation will see a disk brake lock up..Used to happen all the time in the uk with sports bikes..
When I worked at a Bike breakers me and a colleague used to refer to them as Flippers..


When I raced regularly in the early 1970s with my 500cc Triton, I always rode in Allpowers C grade against the modern bikes of the time. I could not afford to be out-braked, so the front brake was always set up to be extremely effective. I extended the lever on the AJS 7R brake, so I could brake as well as I could have with a disc brake. At one meeting, a rival was riding the Seeley I now have, but with a Laverda 750 motor fitted. I had not ridden for most of that year, so I was slightly out of practice. I over-braked in front of the Seeley at the end of the back straight and my friend got around me, then popped in in-front of me and stupidly grabbed a handful of disc brake. I locked the drum brake trying not to hit him, and the front tyre broke loose. The bike went into a lock to lock tank slapper and I did not get my hands off the bars quick enough, so it spat me off. I went down the road on the top of my hear at about 70 MPH. I was on my side when I hit the ripple in the bitumen and got a dislocated collar bone. If I had still been on the top of my head, I would probably have received a broken neck.
 
On any race bike I ride, I always set the front brake up to operate with only one finger. When things happen in front of you, you need to be able to respond instantly. If it takes three fingers to operate the brake, it is probably too slow to respond. If you crash a bike by locking a disc brake, you are probably very insensitive or you have over-reacted.
 
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