Cafe or cafe racer?

That’s my point of the thruxton. It’s a better performer than the 961. And it also runs with many modern bikes.
I just don't see the Thruxton as occupying a substantially different performance category from the 961.

I ride my 961 with guys who have modern Honda, Yamaha, Harley and BMW bikes. It's not a problem at all.
Yes, they can accelerate harder than me, but I catch up without an issue, I just have to use the throttle a bit harder.
The 961 chassis/suspension/brakes are more than adequate to keep up in any real world road situation with modern bikes.
On a track day that probably wouldn't be the case, but normal street legal riding - it's just not a real issue for the 961.
 
But people don't buy those bikes for performance
I’m not sure. Depends on your idea of performance. If you want a classic looking bike, than the Thruxton , Norton 961, Kaw etc are better performance bikes than classic bikes of just 10-50 years ago.
 
Let’s say today you wanted to take a new modern bike and make it into a legit cafe racer bike what would you buy and modify? Which factor production bike would you build from?
I think this would be difficult today because the factory makes so many performance bikes and the bikes available are already more than what most can handle.
going from a 30-80 Hp bike in the 50s/60s was a step ahead. But being able to buy a factory 200+ hp bike off the dealers floor and comparing it to a actual race bike of today isn’t a huge leap.
 
I’m not sure. Depends on your idea of performance. If you want a classic looking bike, than the Thruxton , Norton 961, Kaw etc are better performance bikes than classic bikes of just 10-50 years ago.
Not sure about that - 10 years ago.
I owned a '88 Suzuki GSXR1100 which was a real arm-stretcher at full throttle. It would easily smoke the Thruxton or 961.
 
Let’s say today you wanted to take a new modern bike and make it into a legit cafe racer bike what would you buy and modify? Which factor production bike would you build from?
I think this would be difficult today because the factory makes so many performance bikes and the bikes available are already more than what most can handle.
going from a 30-80 Hp bike in the 50s/60s was a step ahead. But being able to buy a factory 200+ hp bike off the dealers floor and comparing it to a actual race bike of today isn’t a huge leap.
It is a very difficult thing to do convincingly.
Have you ever watched the cafe racer tv show?
There were builds on the show where they tried to do just what you are thinking.
Most resulted in horrible builds, IMHO, they looked like the motorcycle equivalent of cross dressers.
Trying to cover up the modern elements, and adding cafe style is a difficult trick to pull off.

Modern bikes have parameter/ mono-shock frames, great for stable, maneuverable handling qualities, but visually they scream - MODERN MOTORCYCLE.
Cafe-ed bikes must have a vintage quality, cradle frame/backbone frames, air cooled motors, or at least cooling fins on the motor, like the Thaiumph twins, laced wheels, not mags, etc...
And what do you do with a modern radiator?
 
Ya know, there are many talented builders out there around the world.
I wish more would think outside-the-box when it comes to hiding the radiator on modern machines.
I keep thinking about the Benelli Tornado 900 sportbike where the Benelli engineers tackled this problem.

They redesigned the radiator to live under the rear subframe with integral rear fender.
Cooling air was ducted from scoops in the fairing, back to the radiator.
Small fans in the rear cowling pulled the heat through the radiator and exhausted it out the top of the rear cowling.
This design allowed the engineers to produce a very narrow forward/lower fairing section with much better coefficient of drag.
the Benelli 900 was a high performance liquid cooled three cylinder sportbike.
A system like this could work on a lower performance twin cylinder machine and use a smaller, even less visually intrusive radiator.

Perhaps an aluminum frame could also be used to shed unwanted heat.
On the Triumph Rat forum, there was an owner/builder who did just this on a Hinckley Bonneville twin.
The guy sealed the frame tubes then routed the engine oil into the frame tubes instead of the original oil cooler.
He was able to eliminate the cooler by using the steel frame tubes to radiate oil heat.
 
If your bike hasn't run flat out around the North Circular then it isn't a Cafe Racer... and if you haven't ridden a bike flat out around the North Circular with arms and knees tucked in then you haven't ridden a Cafe Racer... simple really :)
 
This is of course a debate with no right answer. All bike types/genres develop over time. Do they then lose legitimacy because they are not exactly the same as the originals? From memory, the original Cafe Racer was a term given to both bike and rider collectively. Owners stripped their bikes wherever they could to minimise weight and improve performance, generally following a few basic styling rules. This was aimed of course at mimicking the road racers of the day. I guess we all owe a debt of gratitude to these lads, as this heavily influenced modern sports bikes as we know them today.

I ride a 961 CR, which is a ‘relatively’ lightweight, powerful machine optimised for handling rather than comfort - don’t tell me it ain’t powerful when I’m blasting down a straight at 180Km+, or driving out of a bend chasing down a V4S!;) It has low mounted bars, a prominent seat cowling with an elongated tank sporting knee scallops. The bike has an air-cooled, parallel twin, pushrod operated motor, effectively using 70 year old technology. I ride aggressively over short distances from cafe (for coffee) to cafe (for breakfast) with like minded riding buddies. Never been to either the Ace Cafe or the Busy Bee! What does that make me and my bike? Feel free to be as derogatory as you like!:)

Is there a group of bikes/bikers that has had more influence on motorcycling than the Cafe Racer scene? Noting that the movement still has a massive following all over the world? Now there’s a debate!


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What than is a modern Thruxton or a Ducati monster? Both are able to out perform many modern bikes
Early on the Ducati Monster was referred to as a 'Standard' bike, being without a fairing and having more upright ergonomics than a sport bike. In recent years, the term 'Standard' has been replaced with 'Naked'.
 
Agreed.
It's mostly form over function.
The Thruxton R is a Sport bike in retro Britbike clothing.
Some of us did buy the bike for its performance. It's a better sportbike than my sportbike.

Some 60-80 mph top gear roll on numbers from Sport Rider and Cycle World that might surprise.

06 Sprint 1050- 4.44 seconds

05 Honda RC51 4.21

05 Daytona 955i 4.05

02 Speed Triple 3.77

2010 Aprilia RSV4 R 3.30

2007 Ducati 1098 S 3.11

2016 Triumph Thruxton R 3.0 seconds.

It also does 0-60 in 3 seconds, which is typical for sportbikes.


and just for fun
97 GSXR 1100 60-80 mph roll on - 4.78 seconds

Then there's the handling. That's where it really outshines my Daytona, which is a pretty decent 160 HP Sportbike.

Glen
 
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So really any bike after the '60s isn't a café racer at all but in principle is similar to a home-made Italian pasta sauce in the supermarket which on close inspection is 'inspired by the cuisine of Italy' and comes from a Polish industrial unit in Belgium...
 
So really any bike after the '60s isn't a café racer at all but in principle is similar to a home-made Italian pasta sauce in the supermarket which on close inspection is 'inspired by the cuisine of Italy' and comes from a Polish industrial unit in Belgium...
That's a very good analogy
 
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