Buyer Beware (2011)

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Sweenz said:
I agree this is becoming an all too familiar scenario with supposed original/restored Commandos.
I myself went looking for a basket case, but here in Oz even they are pulling too many $ so I switched tack for an Original/restored 850 Mk2.
Apart from the wheels & the Paint the bike has become a total resto without giving a blow by blow description of what the bike needs.
Some of the previous work carried out on this bike rates with some of the best/worse bodge I have seen. Until you get inside them you really don't know what you have bought!
I have 35yrs experience doing resto's & rebuilds on bikes and still got totally ripped.

To do it again, I would go with the basket case as has been said before "you need to go through it to know what you really have" and one I really like was "bones don't lie".
Just remember; Sellers will say what they need, To sell.

Sweenz
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Very true..
 
builder said:
Broken link removed

Thought I would post this since this guy (whizbangbingo) really has to talk about how he has been cheated by other eBayer's and says he won't cheat a buyer.

Long story short, I have a bike in my shop right now that was purchased from him...$4,500 USD for a bike that supposedly had been through top to bottom. The bike made it a total of 1 mile before breaking down and ending up in my shop for a complete rebuild. My client paid about $3,500 too much for this bike, he's now got $10k+ in parts in the rebuild.

Bent frame, cracked and hogged out mounting holes on the engine, wrong/junk parts in the primary, original bearings throughout when advertised as new. mismatched incorrect body work, mismatched incorrect header pipes and mufflers, the list goes on. Basically a junk parts bike that photographed really well.

This guy has a reputaion of buying junk and reselling as restored. He'll tell you names of people he has been "cheated" by and then turn right around and buy parts from them again under another eBay id.

I haven't bought or sold parts from/to this guy, but know others that have...guys that I have bought, sold, and traded parts with in the past and have always had fair deals. I'm in Minnesota, but a couple hundred miles from the seller, he is infamous in the area.

Just a tell tale sign of how this guy operates. In his ad he says, "Very fun to ride, handles great, and turns heads everywhere I go." I know the guy that sold the Interstate tank that is on this bike to him...and he just shipped it to him a couple weeks ago. We've had temps well below zero degrees F here...I'm sure he's turing heads riding any motorcycle at -20dF.

I don't like to post negative stuff like this, and I won't be offened if a moderator deletes it, but as I'm finishing up a bike that my client got screwed on by this seller, I feel somewhat compelled to at least give a fair warning to others that are out there looking at eBay regularly and think this might be a good deal. Also not an attempt to somehow bolster business for myself...not actively seeking additional projects and the current project will be my last for anyone other than myself.

I've had one bad buy on eBay but lots of good sells, I guess it goes without saying that you should always be aware of buying on eBay.

Good luck to all...
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So, I duped myself on a purchase. The previous owner was an engineer an INOA member. I drove six hours to get the bike, and gambled on the owner more than the bike by reckoning that the work he had done would be first rate. Man was I wrong. The bike didn't make it around the block when I got it home and in six months I've not been able to get the left cylinder to fire. The workmanship on the bike was terrible! Here's the list so far:

Purchased in March 2001 from XXXXX - I didn’t make it around the block the day after purchase because the left cylinder started to misfire. Wasn’t able to ride it. This started the following journey.

  1. IGNITION SYSTEM
    1. Installed two new 6 volt coils. The old ones had been crushed in the clamps
    2. Refitted a majority of the crimped connections with marine grade connectors with shrink wrap. This was after I discovered a bad crimp which led to a no-spark condition
  2. OIL and FILTER
    1. Changed the engine oil and filter.
    2. Blows blue smoke from the left exhaust
  3. FUEL SYSTEM
    1. Installed two new fuel taps
    2. Installed the correct fuel line
    3. Installed new manifold gaskets - had problems with vacuum leaks. Worked these out.
    4. Painted the intake manifolds silver
    5. Installed two new Premier carburetors - still working out the jetting
  4. CYLINDER HEAD - The valve adjustments were out of spec.
    1. Adjusted the valves
    2. Purchased silicon impregnated gaskets from JSMOTORSPORT in Oregon
    3. Installed on the valve covers
    4. Purchased new rocker covers and silicone gaskets from JSMOTORSPORT and learned that the shafts have not been installed in the correct positions. Couldn’t install the new keepers. Hopefully, I can probably fix this without pulling the head
  5. PRIMARY COVER - The cover almost fell off on my 2 mile ride 11/6/2021. Arrived back home to discover that smoke was pouring from the hot exhaust pipe.
    1. Removed the primary cover and tensioned the chain. Everything else looks good here.
    2. New 10-20 oil - 200ml
    3. Reinstalled the nut with blue locktite
  6. POINTS CASE - inspection revealed oil in the bottom of the case.
    1. Purchased a seal kit and changed the seals.
    2. George had wrongly installed the metal spacers on the oil pump seal, which ruined the seal. Good thing that I looked. The engine could have been lost.
  7. TIMING COVER
    1. Soda blasted the black paint from the Norton insignia
    2. Soda blasted the case to clean it
    3. Light polish with Mothers
    4. New gasket on the timing cover.
    5. Checked to make sure the timing marks line up.
    6. Cleaned the pressure relief valve
  8. PAZON IGNITION
    1. Installed bullet connectors in the lines to the stator, to make it easy to take the timing cover off
    2. It was banging hard through the left exhaust. Hopefully, timing the engine will stop this. If not, I’ll need to figure tear down the head and cylinder bores to find out why. Mostly, the engine is running on the right cylinder only.
  9. REGULATOR
    1. Relocate and attach with industrial velcro
    2. Install new marine grade connectors
  10. OIL LEAKS
    1. The oil line connection to the engine case is leaking
    2. The outer transmission cover is leaking
      1. Plan: Purchase silicone impregnated gaskets
      2. Have Colorado Norton machine the outer cases to accept a lip-design seal on the kick starter.
  11. TOOL COVER - fitted a rubber washer to minimize vibration.
  12. FRAME ALIGNMENT
    1. Removed the rear fender, and as best as I can determine, the rear wheel is ⅜”, 9.5205mm, to the left of the headstock. I’ve made it exactly two miles now on the bike. It rides like it’s on two tracks. It feels unrideable.

Due to poor workmanship, It needed a lot more work than I thought to be trustworthy. This is the really hard part to understand. I wonder if anything the previous owner said can be relied on. Entry ended 11/08/2021

Here are some of my thoughts:
1) If that little voice in your head says walk away, walk away.
2) Look to see if the wheels are inline. If not, walk away.
3) Make sure that you get a box of receipts with the bike.
4) Take a test ride. Make sure the engine makes it's redline.
5) Pay more to get one in excellent condition as opposed to looking for a deal.

1
1) Don't buy one without a pile of receipts for the work that was done.
 
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Receipts are fine, but... The guy I bought from had two Commandos, so not overly sure which one actually got the bits on the paperwork. In many cases, I'm pretty sure mine didn't :-(
 
I bought mine from the same guy I had bought my 1969 TR6 from, I knew in advance a full service would be needed as he never did any ;) but I also knew his brother had looked after it before and he knew his stuff.
 
I am only a basic, average mechanic. I joined the NOC, bought and read Norman White's Commando resto book, lurked on this site for a month or more and read everything I could get my hands on. But I knew no one with an old Brit bike, let alone a Norton. I went to see 3 bikes before the one I bought and was disappointed with two of them (and one I took a dislike to the seller, who I didn't think I could believe). I ended up paying a little more than I'd originally hoped, for a bike that had been restored (by a firm that's still going) 3,000 miles earlier. A mk3. It had pages of receipts, a 40 page record of the worksheets for the dismantling and rebuild and 120 photos on a CD. All with frame / reg no. This was from 2014. Only 3,100 miles since. With further receipts for sprag and sprocket and carb service / choke replacement, plus 2 x services.

I spent a long time x-referencing the receipts with anything obvious I could check. They even let me open the timing cover to check the Boyer ignition, wiggle the wires, etc. I rode it 10 miles, but only after paying a deposit and leaving my car keys. All was fine. My concern was the bike had been hardly used for the past 5 years. As soon as I got it home, I checked it over carefully. Things I'd read about, that didn't involve dismantling the motor! Plus checked everything was tight and adjusted. All looked fine.

Despite this, I still had teething troubles. Wrong washers on the shocks meant the RH shock actually came off the bottom mount. One incorrect part in the hydraulic primary chain tensioner, caused the tensioner to seize pushing the chain onto the case. I found this when the sprag failed and the clutch became stiff (sludge in the basket). When the bike got hot, it leaked oil wherever it could. New gaskets, dowty washers, tighten downs and a reed breather valve.

About 100 miles in, the tickover became unsteady. The Amal carb needed a thorough clean out (+service kit), and a new rubber manifold adapter, due to a hole from previous over tightening of the jubilee clip, and the LH exhaust header had become loose. All needed sorting before it would idle properly.

All of these initial problems are now solved, but a further £1,000 in parts. I've now done 2,800 miles with my Commando. I am really delighted with the bike, it's everything I hoped it would be and more. But, I am hypersensitive to any noise, vibration etc.!

For me, the moral of my story is, researching and inspecting the bike can only go so far with an old bike. If you don't have the experience or skills to buy low / rebuild, there's a dilemma. Either don't take the risk, or buy, realising there's a risk and do what you can to manage it. The best thing I did was join this forum. I've loved learning and spannering. The silliest thing, was not leave myself with 33-50% of the purchase price, to fix what I found. :cool:
 
Mart UK said:
I am only a basic, average mechanic. I joined the NOC, bought and read Norman White's Commando resto book, lurked on this site for a month or more and read everything I could get my hands on. But I knew no one with an old Brit bike, let alone a Norton. I went to see 3 bikes before the one I bought and was disappointed with two of them (and one I took a dislike to the seller, who I didn't think I could believe). I ended up paying a little more than I'd originally hoped, for a bike that had been restored (by a firm that's still going) 3,000 miles earlier. A mk3. It had pages of receipts, a 40 page record of the worksheets for the dismantling and rebuild and 120 photos on a CD. All with frame / reg no. This was from 2014. Only 3,100 miles since. With further receipts for sprag and sprocket and carb service / choke replacement, plus 2 x services.

I spent a long time x-referencing the receipts with anything obvious I could check. They even let me open the timing cover to check the Boyer ignition, wiggle the wires, etc. I rode it 10 miles, but only after paying a deposit and leaving my car keys. All was fine. My concern was the bike had been hardly used for the past 5 years. As soon as I got it home, I checked it over carefully. Things I'd read about, that didn't involve dismantling the motor! Plus checked everything was tight and adjusted. All looked fine.

Despite this, I still had teething troubles. Wrong washers on the shocks meant the RH shock actually came off the bottom mount. One incorrect part in the hydraulic primary chain tensioner, caused the tensioner to seize pushing the chain onto the case. I found this when the sprag failed and the clutch became stiff (sludge in the basket). When the bike got hot, it leaked oil wherever it could. New gaskets, dowty washers, tighten downs and a reed breather valve.

About 100 miles in, the tickover became unsteady. The Amal carb needed a thorough clean out (+service kit), and a new rubber manifold adapter, due to a hole from previous over tightening of the jubilee clip, and the LH exhaust header had become loose. All needed sorting before it would idle properly.

All of these initial problems are now solved, but a further £1,000 in parts. I've now done 2,800 miles with my Commando. I am really delighted with the bike, it's everything I hoped it would be and more. But, I am hypersensitive to any noise, vibration etc.!

For me, the moral of my story is, researching and inspecting the bike can only go so far with an old bike. If you don't have the experience or skills to buy low / rebuild, there's a dilemma. Either don't take the risk, or buy, realising there's a risk and do what you can to manage it. The best thing I did was join this forum. I've loved learning and spannering. The silliest thing, was not leave myself with 33-50% of the purchase price, to fix what I found. :cool:
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brilliantly said.
 
The first Commando I looked at to buy, only an hour from home, in a town where my buddy lives, runs a business, and knows everyone.
The seller showed me a bike with a Frankenstein welded crankcase. The fact that he hadn't mentioned it on the phone, nor in person until I brought it up, was my cue he was disingenuous.
My welding background made it the FIRST thing I noticed.
"I gotta go."
 
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