Best calibre for varmint hunting - .223 or .22-250?

Talking about small pesky game here, raccoons, coyotes and others. I've been very happy with my trusty .223 but she drops like a stone at around 300 yards so I'm looking at a Browning BLR lever chambered in .22-250. Muzzle velocity is ridiculous for a round this size (around 4000 fps), and some of the better shooters I know claim deadshot levels of accuracy out to 500 yards. Thoughts from experienced shooters appreciated.

This is the model I'm currently considering

Design the gun performance you need on paper, then research those specifications. So figure out what distances you are reasonably going to shoot, figure out which calibers will dispatch the game you are considering, and put together your basic requirements. Then see what's out there that suits your needs.

If I was shooting out to 500 yards and more, like people do on open prairies, that's probably a specialized rifle. It probably has a more powerful scope, and a faster, flatter shooting bullet. My friend shoots a 7mm mag for deer and uses a 4x12 scope. I shoot a slower, less flat 30.06 and have 3x9 scope. There's no reason for me to have a more powerful scope for my bullet performance, but for his bullet performance it's reasonable. That's just an example. You have to decide if you need the high performance of the .22-250 or not.

If you already have a .223 with an appropriate scope for the distances you wish to cover, then maybe spend your money on a re-loader for the .223 and experiment with bullet weights and powder charges making note of the most accurate combinations. (I did that for my Savage 30.06) You may come up with a hand loaded .223 bullet which shoots incredibly accurate. Plenty of people varmint hunt with a scoped .223 out to a few hundred yards.

It's just like motorcycles, you can always spend more money and get greater performance. If money is no object then that specialized gun is just another tool in the tool chest.

o0norton0o said:

Design the gun performance you need on paper, then research those specifications. So figure out what distances you are reasonably going to shoot, figure out which calibers will dispatch the game you are considering, and put together your basic requirements. Then see what's out there that suits your needs.

If I was shooting out to 500 yards and more, like people do on open prairies, that's probably a specialized rifle. It probably has a more powerful scope, and a faster, flatter shooting bullet. My friend shoots a 7mm mag for deer and uses a 4x12 scope. I shoot a slower, less flat 30.06 and have 3x9 scope. There's no reason for me to have a more powerful scope for my bullet performance, but for his bullet performance it's reasonable. That's just an example. You have to decide if you need the high performance of the .22-250 or not.

If you already have a .223 with an appropriate scope for the distances you wish to cover, then maybe spend your money on a re-loader for the .223 and experiment with bullet weights and powder charges making note of the most accurate combinations. (I did that for my Savage 30.06) You may come up with a hand loaded .223 bullet which shoots incredibly accurate. Plenty of people varmint hunt with a scoped .223 out to a few hundred yards.

It's just like motorcycles, you can always spend more money and get greater performance. If money is no object then that specialized gun is just another tool in the tool chest.

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I hadn't thought of a re-loader, that's a good idea (and cheaper). 300 yards is about the limit for what I need (up north, not in the city LOL). I've got the old man's 30-30 for when I need to go bigger, good brush gun, but limited to 150-200 yards. Makes me feel like John Wayne though!

Thanks for the tip on the re-loader

Honestly, My friend and his brother are the gun experts. When I got my savage rifle, they were "on me" right away to chose a bullet weight and then make up a dozen rounds with various powder loads to find out if my rifle had a better grouping with a certain bullet specification. They suggested all kinds of other calpers for better bullet performance before I bought the savage in .30-06. I think they were a bit disappointed that I didn't go for a more specialized caliber, which is their "thing", to have a safe full of specialty rifles.

.223 since it's such a popular round, there may be enough variety of high quality ammo available for you to not even need to reload your own brass for testing. You can just buy a few different brands in varying specifications and see if your rifle shoots better groups with one of those commercially produced rounds.... That's a cheap alternative to optimizing accuracy without reloading yourself...

A .22-250 is pretty loud.
Do you have a problem with frightening your next targets off.

Off topic a bit , I never put a bead on target more than 100yd out , for me it the chase/track that demands the skills I try to develop , so .22LR semi-auto , 12 ga. full choke single and 30-30 have fed our family for over 40 yrs .... got to admire anyone going out 200yds plus , have read of 1000yd hits and it is beyond my scope of understanding .....

Are raccoons really that bad up there? Most people leave them alone down here.

300yrds seems pretty far out for any of these critters. If you're looking for an excuse for a new gun, well, that's understandable.

Craig said:

Off topic a bit , I never put a bead on target more than 100yd out , for me it the chase/track that demands the skills I try to develop , so .22LR semi-auto , 12 ga. full choke single and 30-30 have fed our family for over 40 yrs .... got to admire anyone going out 200yds plus , have read of 1000yd hits and it is beyond my scope of understanding .....

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I agree with the tracking sentiment, that's how my old man taught me, but that was also back on the reserve out east and I don't sustenance hunt anymore, this is mainly for the small-med size predators up north that raid bird coops etc.

swooshdave said:

Are raccoons really that bad up there? Most people leave them alone down here.

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Yes, they're vicious creatures with nasty big pointy teeth!

acadian said:

I agree with the tracking sentiment, that's how my old man taught me, but that was also back on the reserve out east and I don't sustenance hunt anymore, this is mainly for the small-med size predators up north that raid bird coops etc.



Yes, they're vicious creatures with nasty big pointy teeth!

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This guy is using an air gun for raccoons. I’m guessing you’re not keeping the fur? Even the .223 can’t be leaving more than a tail and a smile.

I love guns, but I would never own one. I was once involved in firing a 5 inch naval gun - that would be good for hunting varmints. 'Some things are so bad that they are good' ?
I was once told that if you stood behind the gun, you could see the shell going down range. That is bullshit - I thought I saw something, but I might have blinked.

Consistent shot placement beyond 300 yds. is a game that gets a lot more sophisticated with a .223.
350 yds. is my max with a scoped .270 . And I practiced a lot for a level of confidence shooting that kind of distance.
Beyond that 350 to 400 yd. range there are so many factors that come in to play it is a more specialized application. If you are proficient with your .223 at 300 yds. stick with it. If you really need to reach out beyond that, as noted above, there specialized loads and optics upgrades...but whacking a coyote at 300 is a long haul if responsible shot placement is considered and maintained.

My personal thinking, having been this route myself....somebody has the hots for a new rifle...just wait til' she is asleep to bring it in and pay cash.

acotrel said:

I love guns, but I would never own one. I was once involved in firing a 5 inch naval gun - that would be good for hunting varmints. 'Some things are so bad that they are good' ?
I was once told that if you stood behind the gun, you could see the shell going down range. That is bullshit - I thought I saw something, but I might have blinked.

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5in is pretty small to see it go, I bet a 16in could be spotted.

Lineslinger said:

My personal thinking, having been this route myself....somebody has the hots for a new rifle...just wait til' she is asleep to bring it in and pay cash.

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you're probably right

I guess it isn't much different with bikes, do I really need those FCRs?

If the sun is right, one can see a 30-06 round streak to a 100 yd. target. I have seen it several times.

I reload the .223 and get 3/4 inch groups at 100 yds.... sometimes putting 3 shots into 2 holes. Increased accuracy is more important than increased muzzle velocity.

I also shoot, among others, a Weatherby .257, which is a certifiable 500 yd. cartridge, but I would never shoot a deer sized game over 300 yds.... too risky for wounded and lost game .

Slick

I sold my 30-06 a few years back. One of my favourite things is shooting rifled slugs out of a .410 Topper I got when I was 10, my first gun, it still makes me smile every time I get to use it. Will pass that and an old Cooey .22 my grandfather gave me on to my son.

acadian said:

Talking about small pesky game here, raccoons, coyotes and others. I've been very happy with my trusty .223 but she drops like a stone at around 300 yards so I'm looking at a Browning BLR lever chambered in .22-250. Muzzle velocity is ridiculous for a round this size (around 4000 fps), and some of the better shooters I know claim deadshot levels of accuracy out to 500 yards. Thoughts from experienced shooters appreciated.

This is the model I'm currently considering

Browning® BLR Lightweight Lever-Action Rifle w/ Pistol Grip | Cabela's Canada

• Button rifled barrel with target crown • Lightweight aircraft grade aluminum receiver • Beautiful black walnut stock with pistol grip and Schnabel forearm The pistol grip and Schnabel forearm gives the BLR Lightweight a comfortable feel and unique look. The aluminum receiver and...

www.cabelas.ca

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4000 fps Lol.For a bullet, it's a sprinter

If i had the choice you fortunate gentlemen in the States have I would be buying one of those accurised Springfield M14's. With a range finder and In 7.62 They will do 500 yards without much fuss .There is no spending 6 months at the range tuning it. The company guarantees one minute accuracy.They have a momentum carrying 150 grain slug for range. I had one before the government banned them here.Personally I reckon scopes are cheating but all the same with one they make it seam to easy. None of that messy cycling buisness.All you have to do is concentrate and pull the trigger. Pure luxury

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you were able to get at least two in flight at the same time.

As with everything there is allways a downer somewhere . I believe they only come in 7.62 and only do about 2800 fps and expensive.

With the long range stuff wind is a factor also, sorry to say. 4000 fps is pretty damned fast at first but then again the pill is a bit on the light side in 22.250. Im wasn't disciplined enough for the long range stuff myself and more or less gave it up when they took my Sprinfield but to give you some idea when the fellas were ranging at 800 yards the wind shifted the 30 calibe 170 grain 2600 fps or so slug well over a meter to the right.

My suggestion if its a possibility would be to attend the range when any match that may be of interest is scheduled.

i do concede that beauty is in the eye of the beholder with firearms and in the States you would be spoilt for choice.I like that Browning though. sweet. I would cherish it.

I have an old, maybe 60's, 112J bull barrel Savage in 220 Swift. Thing is accurate as the dickens if I use flat base bullets. Sounds like a cannon. The throat is probably worn a bit. I push out 40gr HP bullets at real close to 4000fps, measured. As soon as you pull the trigger, the bullet seems to be there. The thing is flat out to about 300 yd with no wind. I've shot pigeons off the peak of the barn from the house at 150yds, easy. They blow up like a pillow exploding. They're hard to get with the shotgun because they are smart and always fly straight away from you, fast too.

That said I had a Rem 700 heavy barrel 22-250 that was a real good shooter too. It was death to groundhogs, but even if you blow their guts out they'll still run 50 yards. I had a 300WinMag Browning hunter grade that was a good ground hog shooter if it was under 150 yds, it didn't matter where you hit the GH, even in the foot, the hydro static shock would kill it instantly. It's like being hit with a VW, still 2300 foot pounds of energy at 150 yds. That Browning wasn't that accurate out farther. It was made for larger stuff. Bear to shoot.

My Brother and I had a savage arms 22. when we were kids for squirrels and what not. I remember riding my Suzuki TC100 to school one morning (that would put it around '78) anyway I came up on this jack rabbit that had been hit by a car. It's back was broken and it was trying with all it's might to get into the woods with only it's front legs. I went back to the house, got that little bolt action and put it out of it's misery- never knew rabbits could make such a racket as it was squealing so much. Nobody else bothered to stop. Anyway that was up on the north side of Houston, what used to be way on the out skirts of town. Now I'm in Japan at the moment, where you can't even legally have a slingshot. Sorry, a bit off topic, this thread brought back memories , I've no experience with 22.250's though.

The .22-250 is a great flat shooting round. You will get shots out to 450 yards if the wind doesn't push it. Anything beyond 500 and that the bullet is dropping like a rainbow. Its a fairly safe round too as when the bullet hits the ground or object it frags instantaneously so any ricochet would be minimal. Throat erosion is not as bad as the 220 swift.

Yeah, those 22 SX bullets are great if they don't blow up going out the barrel. But I've found there pretty good up above 3000 and more. That's what killed the 220 was the throat erosion.

I even use SX bullets in my 1922 Savage 99. 125gr going out at about 2700fps. Great out to about 150 yds for deer. I hit one in the head Christmas day, I never saw anything go down so fast. I saw it in the garden as I was about to shower when I got up, grabbed the 99 and stepped out the front door and it was a goner.