Another Tri-spark Failure

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New update. The Trispark failed again during a ride today. While getting ready to install the Pazon, I thought I had found a likely cause of the no-spark problem. I found that the plastic insulating sleeve on the bullet connector between the control unit and the coil had pulled back, and it looked like the connector was touching one of the coil mounting bolts, creating an intermittent short. I taped it up and put the old Trispark unit back in place, timed it, and took a test ride. It worked great. So we loaded it in the van and took it along for my grandson to ride on the Hansen Dam ride today. He rode my 961 down to the dam, along with his friend on another bike. I drove the van down with the MK3. We unloaded the MK3, and headed out on the ride, with me on the 961 and grandson on the MK3. We got abut 10 miles into the ride, and it started backfiring, and then quit running. I rode back to the dam parking lot and drove the van back to pick up the bike. I let my grandson borrow my 961 Commando so he and his friend could finish the ride, and I took the other bike home. After they finished the ride and rode the other bikes home, we unloaded the MK3. We checked to be sure the timing hadn't slipped, but it hadn't. So we hit the starter. Sure enough, it started just fine once it had cooled off. I suppose it is possible that there is some other problem besides the Trispark, but I really don't think so. I've checked everything else pretty carefully.

I really like the way the Trispark works, when it is working properly. It starts instantly, and has a really smooth idle, and runs like gangbusters. But I need something with a little more reliability. Carrying a spare unit, like some folks have done, isn't my idea of a good solution. I still have another new Trispark unit, but I also have a new Pazon Altair, and I think I'll just go ahead and try it instead.

Ken
 
I wouldnt think that 10 mins into a ride would get it so hot as to overheat? Have you tried the other TS you have?
 
gortnipper said:
I wouldnt think that 10 mins into a ride would get it so hot as to overheat? Have you tried the other TS you have?
Click to expand...

No. It is still in the box. I bought it to use on my other MK3, but now I'm not so sure I want to.

A spirited 10 mile ride on twisty roads is more than enough to get the engine up to full temperature. But I'm not positive that it is a temperature issue. It could be some other internal failure that is getting worse as the bike is ridden more. In any case, unless I find a "smoking gun" when I take the Trispark out, I'm probably not spending any more time trying to identify the issue with this particular unit. Getting stranded twice is enough, and I'm getting a little frustrated. However, if I find something else, like a loose rotor or another wiring problem, I'll probably try the unit again. But if I don't find a proximate cause, I'll conclude that it's time to try something different to get the bike back on the road.

In fairness to TS, I did heat it a lot with a heat gun after the first failure, trying to find out if it was an overheating issue. It's possible I got it hot enough to damage something internal.

Ken
 
I would just put the new TS stator in and see what happens. If you get a failure with that straightaway, then odds are you need to.look elsewhere.
 
I think you should return it to mfg. He at least can tell you if it is good or not. You have other IE to install you wouldn't be without the bike. I guess Id be inclined to put in the other TS and see wot happens.
 
lcrken said:
No. It is still in the box. I bought it to use on my other MK3, but now I'm not so sure I want to.

A spirited 10 mile ride on twisty roads is more than enough to get the engine up to full temperature. But I'm not positive that it is a temperature issue. It could be some other internal failure that is getting worse as the bike is ridden more. In any case, unless I find a "smoking gun" when I take the Trispark out, I'm probably not spending any more time trying to identify the issue with this particular unit. Getting stranded twice is enough, and I'm getting a little frustrated. However, if I find something else, like a loose rotor or another wiring problem, I'll probably try the unit again. But if I don't find a proximate cause, I'll conclude that it's time to try something different to get the bike back on the road.

In fairness to TS, I did heat it a lot with a heat gun after the first failure, trying to find out if it was an overheating issue. It's possible I got it hot enough to damage something internal.

Ken
Click to expand...
These TS are weak in a Norton. I've had several fail and finally sold my spare pu unit and parts and went with a Pazon. Mr Kelly will check and replace if bad and reimburse shipping but if not under warrantee shipping is expensive. Wanted to love the thing , but if I can't trust it, it is of no use to me.

Good luck
 
Too bad Ken. It was a fabulous day. Have you completely ruled out a coil issue?
I recently relpaced a suspect Crane dual fire coil with original Lucas coils from my 72 project.
All in I ran about 200 mi up, back and the route. 70-80 fwy speeds.
 
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MichaelB said:
Too bad Ken. It was a fabulous day. Have you completely ruled out a coil issue?
I recently relpaced a suspect Crane dual fire coil with original Lucas coils from my 72 project.
All in I ran about 200 mi up, back and the route. 70-80 fwy speeds.
Click to expand...

Maybe not "completely", but enough to convince me. It's the proper coil, supplied by TS, and both the primary and secondary circuits have the proper resistance when measured (no open or short circuits). I guess I'll find out for sure if I fit the Pazon. It has the same coil specs as the TS.

Glad you had a good ride. I rode the same route last year, so I know how interesting it is. This year I had a GoPro camera on the 961, and my grandson did manage to complete the ride on it, so I at least got to watch most of the ride from his perspective afterwards.

Ken
 
My issue was different as it was getting hard to start.
My Crane was reading 9k on the secondary.
From what I could read, should be 10k plus. Don't know enough about coils to know what effect that has but I
changed it out and went from a yellow spark to a deep blue almost purple spark.
I realize this is a different issue from yours as I didn't have any failures.

I am curious about coils and what your secondary reading is, and anyone else with a dual fire who wants to chime in.
Just for data collection.

BTW, other than the 50mi. shake down run Saturday, this was its first real test.
And quite franky, I was a little nervous.......
However, with a Buddy, a cell phone and a AAA card. One is never really alone.
 
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elefantrider said:
Has anyone tried the Wassell-VAPE? I am surprised it is not mentioned more on here. Looks well-made. It can be found for half the price of a TS.
Click to expand...
Been running my Vape Wassell EI for about 7k miles over first two seasons of my Norton career. Pretty consistent starting 1 or 2 kicks. It has epoxy encapsulated stator gubbins which seems to be the major difference from Boyer. I paid $125 US from EuroJumbalaya.
 
lcrken said:
New update. The Trispark failed again during a ride today. While getting ready to install the Pazon, I thought I had found a likely cause of the no-spark problem. I found that the plastic insulating sleeve on the bullet connector between the control unit and the coil had pulled back, and it looked like the connector was touching one of the coil mounting bolts, creating an intermittent short. I taped it up and put the old Trispark unit back in place, timed it, and took a test ride. It worked great. So we loaded it in the van and took it along for my grandson to ride on the Hansen Dam ride today. He rode my 961 down to the dam, along with his friend on another bike. I drove the van down with the MK3. We unloaded the MK3, and headed out on the ride, with me on the 961 and grandson on the MK3. We got abut 10 miles into the ride, and it started backfiring, and then quit running. I rode back to the dam parking lot and drove the van back to pick up the bike. I let my grandson borrow my 961 Commando so he and his friend could finish the ride, and I took the other bike home. After they finished the ride and rode the other bikes home, we unloaded the MK3. We checked to be sure the timing hadn't slipped, but it hadn't. So we hit the starter. Sure enough, it started just fine once it had cooled off. I suppose it is possible that there is some other problem besides the Trispark, but I really don't think so. I've checked everything else pretty carefully.

I really like the way the Trispark works, when it is working properly. It starts instantly, and has a really smooth idle, and runs like gangbusters. But I need something with a little more reliability. Carrying a spare unit, like some folks have done, isn't my idea of a good solution. I still have another new Trispark unit, but I also have a new Pazon Altair, and I think I'll just go ahead and try it instead.

Ken
Click to expand...
It would have been interesting to see how far it went with the points cover removed.
 
I note with interest the next generation of Tri-Spark - the FireBox Pro.

He has gone back to the more familiar setup of a separate brain box like the Boyer Bransden.

I also find it interesting that the components on the stator plate inside the points cover are not heavily potted and that the brain box sits in a well-finned heat sinking aluminium enclosure, which I am sure is RFI and EMI screened.

Another Tri-spark Failure

Another Tri-spark Failure


Looks like they are evolving well based on learnings from units out in the field.

https://www.trispark.com.au/blog/plug-gap/firebox-pro-for-triumph-norton-and-bsa-twins-fb-00/

I like this setup.
 
well at $450.00 US plus the cost of the programing kit I am not a player. but at what i spent with them on the first unit plus 3 spare stators i was in to it WAY more than the cost of the fire box.
 
bill said:
well at $450.00 US plus the cost of the programing kit I am not a player. but at what i spent with them on the first unit plus 3 spare stators i was in to it WAY more than the cost of the fire box.
Click to expand...
Me too
 
"He has gone back to the more familiar setup of a separate brain box like the Boyer Bransden."

They went to a separate box because they had to do that to incorporate the circuitry/processing power in the new programmable ignition, not because they saw a need to "go back" to a separate box. There is no change to the standard ignition and the Firebox does not replace it. It provides programming capabilities for those that think they need it.
 
@MexicoMike respectfully I disagree.

They are not going to be derogatory about the shortcomings of the Tri-Spark Classic Twin unit though - it’s at a lower price point, and aimed at a ‘keep it simple’ installer (which includes me by the way)

The PowerArc incorporates the same functionality in a unit that’s all in the points cover, so miniaturisation vs functionality vs an interface port for PC connection doesn’t come in to it.

I’m not being negative about the FireBox Pro - quite the opposite. As a Tri-Spark owner, I see the changes as major positives, and ones that will improve the longevity of the units.

I also like the strain relief to prevent wires from shaking off, potted wiring where possible and heatshrink over soldered joints - it’s a quality unit.
Again, feedback taken from the shortcomings of the Boyer Bransden units over the years.

The FireBox Pro is also catering for people that don’t like the idea of the all in one ‘shake and bake’ unit, and wouldn’t previously touch Tri-Spark for that reason.



The $450 sell price is Aussie Dollars
That’s £240 UK, €280 Euro, $310 US

Agreed, still a premium price, but not too bad in my opinion.


Stephen Kelly from Tri-Spark did a talk recently at one of the UK Norton Owners Club branches, I read about it long after the event in the monthly Roadholder mag.
He seems to be pushing his super new oil-filled coils as a much improved alternative to the resin encapsulated ones due to their superior cooling.

I also see on the website that they have started selling a MOSFET Reg/Rec alongside the Podtronics ones that he has always sold.

It’s good to see a vendor innovating like this in my opinion.
 
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I've been thinking about the Firebox. I like having the electronics in a separate box that can live in a cooler location, and can be mounted with some vibration isolation. It looks like the case is a bit of a heat sink, and the trigger looks a bit more robust. The other attraction is that it still includes the idle stabilization feature. The US$310 price isn't so bad, considering the features. You don't really need the programming kit, unless you want to play around with the advance. They will set up the box for your application before shipping. But if you do want it, it is AUS$149, or US$103. I'd have to get the programming kit, because I can't help myself. The total would be about $415, which isn't all that bad for the features you get. But I just bought the Altair, so I think I'll try it for a while first.

Ken
 
interested in your feed back on it. haven't heard anymore from concours about his and the kick back issues he was having.

lcrken said:
But I just bought the Altair, so I think I'll try it for a while first.

Ken
Click to expand...
 
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