Another Tri-spark Failure

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Ancient Boyer with the pickup wires bullet proofed.
I bought two spare sets of the Boyer from Jerry for $50 so I now carry a spare set on the Commando and on the 650ss. Haven't needed either.
Both bikes start easily and run great on the old Boyer analogue.
The previous owner had it installed on the Commando by Poke's Cycle in 1985. Bit of a messy install but it has functioned well, other than when the stainless oil line abraded the feed wire to nothing.

I can't see a need for idle stabilization or any fancy ignition for this bike. It just works. ( Am I tempting fate?:)

 
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MexicoMike said:
In NY, riding out to the Hamptons on my Ducati 900SS back in '92, I stopped on the side of the road to pee in the bushes (nothing wrong with the bike). When I got back to the bike a rider on a blue/white Harley was pulling up to see if I needed any help. It was Billy Joel! :)
Click to expand...

That would make it worth breaking down.
 
worntorn said:
I can't see a need for idle stabilization or any fancy ignition for this bike. It just works. ( Am I tempting fate?):)
Click to expand...

No, you're not. On a good running bike the old Boyer works just fine and is very reliable. I had one for 25 years and only had to deal with the pickup wires, like everyone else. Then I had an intermittent misfire that kept the engine from revving past 4500 so I binned the ignition and replaced it with another. Got 5 more years of trouble free riding.

Then I did a major motor overhaul and on reassembly I couldn't get the idle to be stable. I was constantly twiddling the carb screws. Figured the carb slides were worn so I replaced them with new. Still had a problem with erratic idle.

In desperation, I switched to a Tri-Spark including a pair of their coils. Erratic idle completely disappeared. Never did identify the root cause of the poor running, but with the TS it doesn't matter. It really does work, and I wouldn't want an EI without that feature. Starts easily, too.

So, if your bike runs as well as it does in that vid, keep on Boyering.
 
I ran my old Boyar for over 32 years without any problems never had a issue with idle even with worn out slides but of course you need a good battery so last 10 years now with the JH Maggie, no battery at all, I run my power off a battery elimator light is a bit dull but I don't ride it at night but its bright enough to get me home in the dark if need to, I have my modern Thuxtons for night riding.
With the old Boyar my Norton has fired up by just turning the ignition on twice, lucky it wasn't in gear at the time, the first time it did it my mate was sitting on the KS side of the bike and I was on the other side and it had him stumped to work out how I did it, I didn't tell him for about a year later lol.

Ashley
 
MexicoMike said:
In NY, riding out to the Hamptons on my Ducati 900SS back in '92, I stopped on the side of the road to pee in the bushes (nothing wrong with the bike). When I got back to the bike a rider on a blue/white Harley was pulling up to see if I needed any help. It was Billy Joel! :)
Click to expand...

So...

Billy Joel stopped to ask if you needed help taking a piss...

Now there’s a story.
 
Onder said:
Does not the Altair have the handy LED for set up and the Surefire (the basic approach) have only a window and dot to align?
Click to expand...

The original version with slotted rotor has the red LED static light on the plate (As does the SmartFire) but the later version with the winged rotor does not.
The later plate is very minimal with only the sensor.

I do not know what the later SmartFire has plate or rotor wise but Pazon seem to have no trouble changing things along the way.
I had looked at TS in the beginning but the components in the AAU cavity for no logical reason was a deal breaker for me and still can not understand why they would do that.... not that is matters.
 
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Time Warp said:
I had looked at TS in the beginning but the components in the AAU cavity for no logical reason was a deal breaker for me and still can not understand why they would do that.... not that is matters.
Click to expand...

Funny - that is one of the two reasons I selected the TS, the fact that it totally fit in the OEM location, and because the advance curve was essentially the same as the AAU. I had removed a troublesome Boyer shortly after acquiring the bike in '06 and reinstalled the OEM system. I had no intention of ever installing another EI but when the TS came on the market I decided to give it a try and it's been perfect ever since. If it fails I'll put the points/AAU back in and forget about all this! :)

One point I will make AGAINST the OEM system: it takes more power to operate than does the TS (and maybe other EI's?) so battery charging voltage and the various RPM is lower with the OEM system by almost a full volt with my Alton 150W alternator.
 
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maylar said:
No, you're not. On a good running bike the old Boyer works just fine and is very reliable. I had one for 25 years and only had to deal with the pickup wires, like everyone else. Then I had an intermittent misfire that kept the engine from revving past 4500 so I binned the ignition and replaced it with another. Got 5 more years of trouble free riding.

Then I did a major motor overhaul and on reassembly I couldn't get the idle to be stable. I was constantly twiddling the carb screws. Figured the carb slides were worn so I replaced them with new. Still had a problem with erratic idle.

In desperation, I switched to a Tri-Spark including a pair of their coils. Erratic idle completely disappeared. Never did identify the root cause of the poor running, but with the TS it doesn't matter. It really does work, and I wouldn't want an EI without that feature. Starts easily, too.

So, if your bike runs as well as it does in that vid, keep on Boyering.
Click to expand...

I fitted a Boyer when I first built my 850. It failed in the first week leaving me a long push one very warm morning. It was replaced FOC. For years after I could not get a reliable idle & tried a new pair of Concentrics, a single Concentric, a single MK2, an SU but all to no avail. Then I fitted a Trispark & all was well with the world, until two years later when it failed. I did manage to get the 80 miles back home though once it had cooled down enough. Got another FOC & it is still good. Would I have another? Well yes as I have fitted one to my 750 Tiger to replace a red box Boyer which used to cut out when ever it felt like it. Would I go touring abroad without taking a spare unit? Not bloody likely!
In a similar vein my far more modern Hinckley Triumph suffered the same problem whilst touring around France & Switzerland, so now we always pack a spare ignition amplifier for that. I can't imagine military spec vehicles having these problems.

Martyn.
 
I have sometimes wondered if the idle stabilisation is so good it actually makes carb tuning more difficult. If the EI is automatically compensating for things, how do we know our 1/4 or 1/8 tweak of the air screws is actually doing what we think?
 
Fast Eddie said:
I have sometimes wondered if the idle stabilisation is so good it actually makes carb tuning more difficult. If the EI is automatically compensating for things, how do we know our 1/4 or 1/8 tweak of the air screws is actually doing what we think?
Click to expand...

And on the 850th day, He invented the Dyno.

And gave it an O2 sensor.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I have sometimes wondered if the idle stabilisation is so good it actually makes carb tuning more difficult. If the EI is automatically compensating for things, how do we know our 1/4 or 1/8 tweak of the air screws is actually doing what we think?
Click to expand...

Yes, I have the Boyer red box on and 850 and a BSA B44, both need careful tuning when setting the idle, if you first set the idle speed too high so the idle stabilisation does not kick in and then tune until it's at its fastest then you can drop the revs. Or just use a Colortune as its even easier.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I have sometimes wondered if the idle stabilisation is so good it actually makes carb tuning more difficult. If the EI is automatically compensating for things, how do we know our 1/4 or 1/8 tweak of the air screws is actually doing what we think?
Click to expand...

Well, since there is no exhaust gas sensor or anything else for the idle stabilization to 'read', I've always assumed it was just a programmed ignition retard at some relatively low rpm point. The air screw function doesn't act any different on my TS then it did with the points/AAU.
 
I was going to mention this factor. At some point in the past I read somewhere that TS was considering putting a cutout for the idle stabilization for
carb adjustment purposes. Guess that idea is/was too much of a bother/cost and it has been dropped.
 
If my TS ever fails, I will buy another one.

The stock AAU is a POS that wears out and starts sticking within a few thousand miles

I’ve had all kinds of EI fail on cars and bikes. Stuff happens.
 
I just ordered a Tri-Spark. The stock AAU is notchy and sticks even after careful lubrication. I chose the TS because it fits in the the case. Having never tuned a Commando the simplified process appeals to me and it seems sort of a cop out to completely restore the bike and not make the sensible hidden upgrades. I’ve had a Dyna III in my /5 for 10 years and never given it a thought.
 
I have never failed to get home due to points and AAU but I have been stranded before due to a Boyer box. I might be lucky but my AAU does not stick. To me, there is something cool about the whole mechanical nature of the AAU, like the movement on a mechanical watch. My bikes are mostly all factory-stock though.

Has anyone tried the Wassell-VAPE? I am surprised it is not mentioned more on here. Looks well-made. It can be found for half the price of a TS.
 
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