Andover Norton Records

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When placing a records request with Andover Norton do they send you information just on the number you are searching for or is it more of a lot number of bikes , say like 10 bikes around your search number ?
I have a Mk1 that I would like to get this information on.
Thanks for your help
 
When placing a records request with Andover Norton do they send you information just on the number you are searching for or is it more of a lot number of bikes , say like 10 bikes around your search number ?
I have a Mk1 that I would like to get this information on.
Thanks for your help
Just one :mad: Depending on the year, it can be very little info. For instance, for the 72s I've seen you get the color, model, and a date. No, does not say Combat or not. The 850s I've ordered have a little more info but still not much.
 
I pretty much agree with Greg Marsh.
The only thing new I got from my search was the date the bike was dispatched from the factory.

Slick
 
I had considered that when I think a post from Kommando said he got a record for his Mk2a.
#
The Norton records are sparse compared to Triumph and was surprised to get this much information.

Your bike TR6 05938 was one of 200 USA spec bikes made in that batch.

The engine was built on Thursday 28th February 1957 with the following specs.
Lucas Auto advance magneto, E3610 (8.5:1 CR) pistons and Tachometer (RC109) and USA spec.

The bike was built on Tuesday 5th March 1957 US spec so high Flanders handlebars.

It was dispatched on Wednesday 6th March 1957 to Triumph Corp (East coast).

These specs make it a TR6A model which had low pipes on each side and twin instruments.
Colour would be Aztec Red and ivory.

Coming around starting next month 65 years later.
 
Will admit to being grossly underwhelmed too...

Then again, didn't know what to expect, but wouldn't go there again.
 
I had considered that when I think a post from Kommando said he got a record for his Mk2a.
#
The Norton records are sparse compared to Triumph and was surprised to get this much information.

Your bike TR6 05938 was one of 200 USA spec bikes made in that batch.

The engine was built on Thursday 28th February 1957 with the following specs.
Lucas Auto advance magneto, E3610 (8.5:1 CR) pistons and Tachometer (RC109) and USA spec.

The bike was built on Tuesday 5th March 1957 US spec so high Flanders handlebars.

It was dispatched on Wednesday 6th March 1957 to Triumph Corp (East coast).

These specs make it a TR6A model which had low pipes on each side and twin instruments.
Colour would be Aztec Red and ivory.

Coming around starting next month 65 years later.
My details were from NOC and just confirmed build date, nothing more. I suspect they just told me what the photo of the red plate I supplied showed as their late 850 records are full of gaps, but in the UK if you want dating info valid at DVLA you need to use the NOC are they are registered at DVLA and last time I looked AN were not so AN i not an option unless you then send it to the NOC for validation.
 
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My details were from NOC and just confirmed build date, nothing more. I suspect they just told me what the photo of the red plate I supplied showed as their late 850 records are full of gaps, but in the UK if you want dating info valid at DVLA you need to use the NOC are they are registered at DVLA and last time I looked AN were not so AN i not an option unless you then send it to the NOC for validation.
Not quite, what about the records we have the NOC don't have. I have had two battles with DVLA in the last 12 months and when I showed both employees the reference I have from their senior team at DVLA they back down, when they understand that a factory record is different to a dating certificate they see the light. From the correspondence I have from DVLA the factory record where it exists is prime over a dating certificate according to their own regulations, sadly at times some of the employees at DVLA don't understand this when dealing with applications.
 
Not quite, what about the records we have the NOC don't have. I have had two battles with DVLA in the last 12 months and when I showed both employees the reference I have from their senior team at DVLA they back down, when they understand that a factory record is different to a dating certificate they see the light. From the correspondence I have from DVLA the factory record where it exists is prime over a dating certificate according to their own regulations, sadly at times some of the employees at DVLA don't understand this when dealing with applications.
The DVLA website says they will only accept dating certs from the approved list, no doubt that causes the confusion, but no where do they say on their website that factory records on their own are ok. The DVLA are well known for making it up as they go along and also it changing depending on which DVLA bod is replying, but the hassle of trying to persuade them they are wrong can sometimes just not be worth the bother. Hence why I have seen some get the records from AN and then send them to NOC, as well as the build date you may also need a declaration that the bike was despatched to a UK dealer and not subject to NOVA is needed on the cert. I doubt AN is allowed to do that when not on the approved list.
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I just thought that a factory record would be nice to have if it was a complete record. I bought this bike in 1978 or 1979 and have owned it since then.
 
The DVLA website says they will only accept dating certs from the approved list, no doubt that causes the confusion, but no where do they say on their website that factory records on their own are ok. The DVLA are well known for making it up as they go along and also it changing depending on which DVLA bod is replying, but the hassle of trying to persuade them they are wrong can sometimes just not be worth the bother. Hence why I have seen some get the records from AN and then send them to NOC, as well as the build date you may also need a declaration that the bike was despatched to a UK dealer and not subject to NOVA is needed on the cert. I doubt AN is allowed to do that when not on the approved list.
After a FOI request last year to the DVLA, I was told to read the leaflets online, to which I replied I had and that reply was insufficient and would appeal as they had not answered the question for the reason I raised the FOI request in the first place - I then got a written response which explained what is exactly required. I have the response from them clarifying exactly what is needed and when, you do not to submit a dating certificate when a factory record exists. A factory record is just that which is different to a dating certificate from a club. A dating certificate is a last resort option where a factory record does not exist.
It is shame that employees at DVLA still do not understand the difference, and if anyone wants to email me at work, I'm quite happy to provide the response I got, but not with contact details of the person who responded.
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I just thought that a factory record would be nice to have if it was a complete record. I bought this bike in 1978 or 1979 and have owned it since then.
As you can see from the UK side of this discussion there's value in the record and letter you're buying. I wish they and online service for those who only need the info. I always buy it but it's a lot of money for very little info and it serves no legal purpose for us in the USA. The later records have a bit more info but it's nothing like what you would expect.

BTW, the date on the certification label is often very different from the date(s) in the factory record and some years there is only one date and nothing that says what that date actually represents. Here's a late 74 record and they were starting to be a little professional. The records like 72 were just journals all handwritten. In this case it simply says it was going to the USA so I assume it was not determined when written as it would have gone one of two places (I think). The certification label for this one says Aug 74 so it matches nothing - I assume in 74 that's when the frame was labeled, and they didn't actually build the bike until much later. No, I have no way to prove that the certification label was original, but I believe it was.

Andover Norton Records
 
As you can see from the UK side of this discussion there's value in the record and letter you're buying. I wish they and online service for those who only need the info. I always buy it but it's a lot of money for very little info and it serves no legal purpose for us in the USA. The later records have a bit more info but it's nothing like what you would expect.

BTW, the date on the certification label is often very different from the date(s) in the factory record and some years there is only one date and nothing that says what that date actually represents. Here's a late 74 record and they were starting to be a little professional. The records like 72 were just journals all handwritten. In this case it simply says it was going to the USA so I assume it was not determined when written as it would have gone one of two places (I think). The certification label for this one says Aug 74 so it matches nothing - I assume in 74 that's when the frame was labeled, and they didn't actually build the bike until much later. No, I have no way to prove that the certification label was original, but I believe it was.

View attachment 84301
Just saw this. My bike is 319265 around 1400 earlier than this and built in August 74.

My record from Andover was a photocopy of the handwritten factory record and contained only the number, Mk 11, the batch no, date built and date dispatched. It didn't have the other info you got for bikes built only a month latter. Colour etc. So the records were changing all the time.

On the plus side it was a photocopy of a full page snd while some info was blanked out you could see they were building Interpols, Mk11 and Mk 11As on the same day. So in my case the record did give info on about 10 other bikes either side of mine as follows.

Engine no. 319240, Mk 2 A, Date built 26 August 1974 Date Dispatched 26 August 1974. Batch No NH29/74. Number in batch is unclear but may be 100
Engine noes 319241 to 319257, Interpol, Date built 26 August. Date dispatched 26 August 1974. Same batch number as 319240.

Engine No 319258 to 319267. This includes my bike. Model Mk11 All built 26 August 1974. Up to 319261 dispatched 26 August 1974. The rest including my bike dispatched 27 August. All these bikes are batch no NH/30/74. Same as my bike.

There is no info on the factory record about colour, Roadster or Interstate, frame no or where the bikes were sent to.
 
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seems like Andover has a different document compared to the “factory records” the NOC has. Below is one page from early 1972. It came from the NOC when I worked on the factory records project in the 90s.
Andover Norton Records
 
seems like Andover has a different document compared to the “factory records” the NOC has. Below is one page from early 1972. It came from the NOC when I worked on the factory records project in the 90s.
View attachment 85033
I think they do have factory records.

It's just that the records have major variations over time.
 
I believe Andover has factory records, they are the despatch records. The 1947 one thousand machines I converted from hand written into excel software have considerably more detail….NOC factory records project.
 
I believe Andover has factory records, they are the despatch records. The 1947 one thousand machines I converted from hand written into excel software have considerably more detail….NOC factory records project.
Andover calls them dispatch records. But, they vary widely even during years and definitely across years. I have at least one from each year from 71-74 and they are nothing alike. Do you have any Commando records?
 
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seems like Andover has a different document compared to the “factory records” the NOC has. Below is one page from early 1972. It came from the NOC when I worked on the factory records project in the 90s.
View attachment 85033
Lot of blank numbers. Anyone could stamp their bike with one of those, and claim it was whatever they wanted it to be!
 
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