An interesting comparison of Commando electric starters

grandpaul

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
12,042
Country flag
I'd love to see a through analytical comparison of electric starter conversions for the Norton Commando. AS EXIST AT THIS TIME, WITH LATEST SPEC BITS.

Should include (but not be limited to) comparison of:

-Price
-Overall quality of parts included in kit
-Number of total parts in kit
-Number of moving parts in kit
-Number of engagement points between all (OEM & kit) parts in starting train
-List of OEM parts eliminated by kit
-Number of specific fitments requiring a tool
-Number of different tools required for fitment
-List of items required for a complete fitment, that are NOT included in the kit
-Cost of other items required (not included in kit)
-Objective comparison of time required for ONE PERSON to install the kit, having EVERYTHING required ready at hand BEFORE starting
-"Cleanliness" of installed kit, as relates to visible apparatus clearly non-OEM (maybe a bit subjective, but somewhat clear)

I'm not even going to touch on ease of ordering, shipping time, customer support, warranty support, etc. That is not nuts and bolts, and can vary between users, can vary over time, and may be affected by certain circumstances.

If ANYONE has done any of these comparisons yet, please point me to your conclusions so that I can integrate them, once I get busy with this...
 

baz

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
3,245
Country flag
I'd love to see a through analytical comparison of electric starter conversions for the Norton Commando. AS EXIST AT THIS TIME, WITH LATEST SPEC BITS.

Should include (but not be limited to) comparison of:

-Price
-Overall quality of parts included in kit
-Number of total parts in kit
-Number of moving parts in kit
-Number of engagement points between all (OEM & kit) parts in starting train
-List of OEM parts eliminated by kit
-Number of specific fitments requiring a tool
-Number of different tools required for fitment
-List of items required for a complete fitment, that are NOT included in the kit
-Cost of other items required (not included in kit)
-Objective comparison of time required for ONE PERSON to install the kit, having EVERYTHING required ready at hand BEFORE starting
-"Cleanliness" of installed kit, as relates to visible apparatus clearly non-OEM (maybe a bit subjective, but somewhat clear)

I'm not even going to touch on ease of ordering, shipping time, customer support, warranty support, etc. That is not nuts and bolts, and can vary between users, can vary over time, and may be affected by certain circumstances.

If ANYONE has done any of these comparisons yet, please point me to your conclusions so that I can integrate them, once I get busy with this...
Just on price alone in the US I believe the Alton kit is about the same price as the cnw
But in the UK there is a big price difference
If you want an opinion on the kits I could give an opinion but I've only fitted and used the Alton
I doubt if that many people have fitted both kits ?
 

baz

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
3,245
Country flag
Or are you including the MK3 and the QPD starters?
 

grandpaul

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
12,042
Country flag
Or are you including the MK3 and the QPD starters?
No, but feel free to do so.

How many QPDs were ever built? I believe they're no longer available, so somewhat irrelevant for prospective buyers.

Can a MkIII setup (parts list purchased from an Andover supplier) be adapted to a pre-MkIII without pulling the crankcase apart?

Can either Alton or CNW be adapted to a MkIII? THAT should be somewhat more do-able, but would require different or dual fixing accommodations on the inner case at time of manufacture (on both CNW & Alton)
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
1,984
Country flag
Can either Alton or CNW be adapted to a MkIII? THAT should be somewhat more do-able, but would require different or dual fixing accommodations on the inner case at time of manufacture (on both CNW & Alton)

Not wishing to appear pedantic, but to what advantage??? Most of the Mk3's weak spots can be overcome at way less cost and effort, though if if someone is hell bent on fitting a belt the perhaps they are avenues to explore...
 

grandpaul

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
12,042
Country flag
If you want an opinion on the kits I could give an opinion ...
No, specifically NOT an opinion.

As my original posts states, only an analytical COMPARISON of the actual hardware kits, as they are intended to be installed for a functioning system. No bias, no pre-conceived outcome.

My intention is to have as objective as possible, a comparison for prospective buyers to be able to refer to. I am seeing this question ALMOST DAILY on the many forums that I am on. MOST of the replies favor one or the other, but ALL are based only on each respondent's personal experience. The results of this comparison could be hot-linked in the tech section...
 

maylar

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
3,858
Country flag
Can a MkIII setup (parts list purchased from an Andover supplier) be adapted to a pre-MkIII without pulling the crankcase apart?
No. The crankshaft, cases, gearbox, engine cradle are all different on the MKIII.

Can either Alton or CNW be adapted to a MkIII? THAT should be somewhat more do-able, but would require different or dual fixing accommodations on the inner case at time of manufacture (on both CNW & Alton)
No. You can't mount either of them to the MKIII crankcase. Besides, there's the left hand shift that would have to be dealt with.
 

grandpaul

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
12,042
Country flag
No. The crankshaft, cases, gearbox, engine cradle are all different on the MKIII.

No. You can't mount either of them to the MKIII crankcase. Besides, there's the left hand shift that would have to be dealt with.
I have fitted pre-MkIII gearbox to MkIII, and vice-versa. Only REAL difference is in the primary chain adjustment slot on the cradle.

Capping off the left-hand shift shaft hole is easy, then you only need the inner & outer covers for the gearbox...
850 Norton Monoshock.jpg
 

maylar

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
3,858
Country flag
Right. Crankcase is different, crankshaft is longer, chain has hydraulic tensioners, which won't fit in any other primary.

50201649928_9e4916b346_c.jpg


This won't fit a pre-mkIII case:

50201650248_3aabe8bbb4_c.jpg


(Photos borrowed from @p400 )
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
11,399
Country flag
Regardless of what data points you gather it still will come down to opinion. You are trying to win an argument on the internet. Go find something better to do. :p
 

maylar

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
3,858
Country flag
Regardless of what data points you gather it still will come down to opinion. You are trying to win an argument on the internet. Go find something better to do. :p
Why is the number of tools required an opinion? Most of what he's asking for is quantifiable data.
 
Joined
Dec 13, 2010
Messages
454
Country flag
I understand that the price of the CNW and the Alton unit is roughly the same in the USA, but here (mainland Europe) the Alton starter costs more than 500 Euro less than the CNW. a considereable difference imo.
 

grandpaul

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
12,042
Country flag
Why is the number of tools required an opinion? Most of what he's asking for is quantifiable data.
Almost ALL is quantifiable data, with only variables being delivered prices to various countries, and time to install (of course dependent on installer's mechanical skills).

I will wrap up my eventual comparison with delivered prices of both to US, and both to UK. All others wishing to use the data can adjust accordingly.
 

grandpaul

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
12,042
Country flag
I understand that the price of the CNW and the Alton unit is roughly the same in the USA, but here (mainland Europe) the Alton starter costs more than 500 Euro less than the CNW. a considerable difference imo.
NOTED, and addressed in my previous reply.
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
15,777
Country flag
I understand that the price of the CNW and the Alton unit is roughly the same in the USA, but here (mainland Europe) the Alton starter costs more than 500 Euro less than the CNW. a considereable difference imo.
But you get a top drawer belt drive with the cNw kit…
 
Top