Alton starter motor kits - good?

How good are the Alton starter motor kits? I'm aware of two alternatives (CNW and Norvil) but I've been offered an Alton kit, brand new, at a pretty good price. I know nothing about them other than what I've read on Facebook (which tends to be an unreliable source of information). Some say they're brilliant, others say they've given nothing ut trouble. Hence asking on here. If they do suffer from issues, what kinds of issues are they and can they be avoided somehow?
Also, do they come with a modified inner chaincase or does the original have to be modified? And is any modification of the engine plates / gearbox cradle needed?

Tigernut said:

How good are the Alton starter motor kits? I'm aware of two alternatives (CNW and Norvil) but I've been offered an Alton kit, brand new, at a pretty good price. I know nothing about them other than what I've read on Facebook (which tends to be an unreliable source of information). Some say they're brilliant, others say they've given nothing ut trouble. Hence asking on here. If they do suffer from issues, what kinds of issues are they and can they be avoided somehow?
Also, do they come with a modified inner chaincase or does the original have to be modified? And is any modification of the engine plates / gearbox cradle needed?

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They bolt straight on
You get a replacement inner chain case in the kit
The problem some have is with the alternator woodruff key shearing because the starter sprag runs directly on this
If everything is kept clamped tight all should be well
If not you can do the "Yves mod" you can do a search on here to see what it is
I'd say the cnw kit is the best to go for the only complaint I have read is not being able to use the the ham can air filter

My Alton has worked flawlessly since 2013. No issues of any kind and I haven't had to do anything related to it since then. No modifications to anything are necessary.

I agree that the CNW is probably higher quality but it changes the primary to belt drive - which I don't care for, doesn't allow the original ham can air filter, and is more visually apparent. The Alton is almost unnoticeable. IF the three items I mentioned didn't matter and both were within the budget (I have no idea of the current price of either), I would buy the CNW.

Tigernut said:

How good are the Alton starter motor kits? I'm aware of two alternatives (CNW and Norvil) but I've been offered an Alton kit, brand new, at a pretty good price. I know nothing about them other than what I've read on Facebook (which tends to be an unreliable source of information). Some say they're brilliant, others say they've given nothing ut trouble. Hence asking on here. If they do suffer from issues, what kinds of issues are they and can they be avoided somehow?
Also, do they come with a modified inner chaincase or does the original have to be modified? And is any modification of the engine plates / gearbox cradle needed?

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Alton has good downloadable fitting instructions on their website for the Commando. You can see what is involved and what is included in the kit.
Mine has been troublefree so far.

I have one of each. One cNw downside is the very visible bulk of the starter/solenoid meaning the ham can air filter won’t fit in place. However it
is an absolutely finely engineered and reliable assembly. The Alton system can be prone to damage either from the woodruff key shearing, or backfire damaging the sprag. Ignition needs to be spot on before installation with an EI unit available such as TriSpark which won’t cause backfire with
low battery voltage.. It is the better looking (unobtrusive) of the two. Forget about the Norvil assembly. If I were go buy another, it would definitely
be cNw.

Interesting reading...

More interesting poll...

I installed an Alton on my bike and the Alton has plastic sacrifice dowels that shear if you get a kickback.
This is so that the kickback does not try turn the starter (via one way sprague) which can cause damage.

I have installed a new Trispark. It has a very low rpm spark retard function to prevent kickback. It retards the timing to ATDC.
In addition to adding the Trispark, I actually checked the timing marks using a piston stop in the spark plug hole.
I then set the timing at Maximum advance (I forget but I think it was 3500 rpm) to one or two degrees less than spec

I chose the trispark as I understand that it holds the timing correct when the voltage drops too low. What you don't want is a battery running down (for whatever reason) and then getting a kickback when you try start it.

If you do decide to buy one, contact me via PM for installation tips.

Dennis

I would add that I had a couple of glitches when installing that needed their support and Paul at Alton
was very responsive.

Are any of you combat owners that are happy with the alton. I myself do not want to give up the look of the ham can filter. I think it is an iconic part of the 750s look.

Fitting an Alton system is part of my winter project. I have read through numerous posts regarding the potential issues some have with plastic dowels shearing ...make of EI, kicking back etc. and of course the Yves modification.
As I'm now retired i don't have the access to fabrication and machine shops like i once had
So is anyone out there manufacturing of modifying the components required to fit the Yves components???

ilikevelos said:

Are any of you combat owners that are happy with the alton. I myself do not want to give up the look of the ham can filter. I think it is an iconic part of the 750s look.

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Do you mean a ‘proper’ Combat… ie with 10:1 CR ?

For me, I don't think I need the Yves modification for the following reasons.

1) The Alton drives the crank through a one way clutch that is part of the stator sprague assembly
and the assembly is locked to the crankshaft by a woodruff key. They also specify that one should
lightly sand the crank if the new stator sprague assembly is not a perfect slide on fit. mine required minimal sanding
Doing this gives maximum area of contact.
2) They then provide a new crank nut and a lock washer and give a torque spec. I forget
the exact torque but I think it is 70 foot lbs and I go 5 pounds more as I want to be extra sure.
But here is a tip on being extra sure, When assembling the Alton, torque the crank nut on
dry (ie no loctite) and leave it for a day to settle. Then loosen and retorque again with blue loctite.
If you want, mark the vertical position with a felt pen before you loosen to see if retorquing made a
difference.

3) The Alton has positions for 5 shear dowels and Alton recommends to use three dowels.
One wants to use a minimum number such that kickback causing damage does not
happen. Perhaps due to high compression of the combat engine, you may want to use a
higher number so that simply cranking the engine against higher compression does not cause dowel
shearing.

4) Overall, the biggest reason I do not think I need the Yves modification is that I have a TriSpark
that retards the ignition to ATDC at low cranking/kicking rpm.

Hope this helps

Dennis

Fast Eddie said:

Do you mean a ‘proper’ Combat… ie with 10:1 C

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Fast Eddie said:

Do you mean a ‘proper’ Combat… ie with 10:1 CR ?

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Yes exactly. I think it is relatively hard to kick as compared to my early 20M3.

ilikevelos said:

Yes exactly. I think it is relatively hard to kick as compared to my early 20M3.

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Considering the issues some have had with the keyway and sheer pins etc, are you confident it’s up to the task of a high CR ?

I've had mine 10 years with plenty of use and had 1 shear pin failure just this year, they are easily replaced so no real issue there.
The retorqing advice i think is good advice, i go for a 1/2 hour ride to get things good and hot then retorque once cooled. Have had up to 1/8 of a turn when doing that.
I dont agree about the woodruff key being of any help other than getting the timing mark in the correct place.
As for turning over a Combat, i have never seen any comments on here or the NOC (UK) forum about any issues and these starters have been around a while now.

I have not thought of retorquing the crank nut on the Alton after a ride to heat it all up.
I just left it for a day unused, then rtetorqued
Do you use loctite only when you do the final retorque?
Dennis

I have to admit to being a lazy so and so and just retorqued the nut without loosening/removing so haven't used loctite. Not that i am recommending that to others. If i did use loctite it would be on the retorque only.

ntst8 said:

I have to admit to being a lazy so and so and just retorqued the nut without loosening/removing so haven't used loctite. Not that i am recommending that to others. If i did use loctite it would be on the retorque only.

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Wicking Loctite sounds feasible in this application, it’s applied to the outside and is drawn into the thread.

Then again, as the Alton basically relies on clamping force and friction, I think I’d leave it Loctite free so it could be properly torque checked as a part of periodic servicing.

Fast Eddie said:

Wicking Loctite sounds feasible in this application, it’s applied to the outside and is drawn into the thread.

Then again, as the Alton basically relies on clamping force and friction, I think I’d leave it Loctite free so it could be properly torque checked as a part of periodic servicing.

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When you "torque check" (in the absence of locktite) should the fastener be backed off a bit first?