A word of advice on first-time start-up

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nielsen

Nielsen

Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
140
Hi from Vancouver, Canada: The restoration of my '74 Commando is now essentially complete and I'm ready to start it up for the first time. It hasn't run since the year 2000. How do I set up the single Amal carb air/fuel screw and the idle screw for that initial start-up? I rebuilt the Mark II carb. In other words: is there a trick to, I don't know, turn the air/fuel adjustment screw in all the way and then back out 2.5 turns???? Here's the second dumb question: from what I can read, the choke should be fully 'open' for that initial start-up. Is 'fully open' fully clockwise or counterclockwise on the lever. Thanks very much. I feel like such a novice..... Wait.... I am such a novice!
 
My best buddy always tells me after things ready to go, best not to start up or it just goes down hill from there. 1.5 turns of of air-pilot screw is Amal standard reference-ideal but not very important to just to start up, though once started it may not idle at all or idles too fast until pilot diddled up or down. If turning pilot doesn't work [once started] up or down then will need to bump float fuel level up or down till pilot does give adjusting response. Unless 20'F cold ya don't need the choke to start just a tickle of each carb should do it with out any throttle till fires it but to idle and warm up that cold w/o playing with throttle the chokes can be lowered. If don't start on first couple kicks, crack throttle some. Most of us gone so long w/o chokes fitted its hard to remember which way is choke or not but its opposite the intuitive lever action, til discovered trying to give throttle to take off. Hope the initial smoke cloud clears right up.
 
Well, it took some jumping about. That motor was really tight after a dozen years of sitting, but the Ol' Girl started up, and once warm, started on the first kick. I'm very excited. It's pelting rain here today, some I'm not going around the block. It idles nicely but does seem to run a bit rough at about 2,000 RPM--and I haven't revved it beyond about 3,000. A very little bit of white smoke from the exhausts..... To my untrained eye and ear, things look pretty good. Thanks for the advice. Here's the Youtube of the 'Great Event'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wOCJPE3R8E
 
If it's a Mark II carb, the choke is actually an enricher system. Not sure which way your lever is oriented but look where the lever attaches to the carb and you will see the stem for a plunger. Usually when the lever is down the plunger is up.
This opens a passage in the carb that allows extra gas into the carb to flood it to make it easier to start. When the lever is up, the plunger is down sealing the passage for normal running.
I've found with the Mark II it is easier to start with the enricher open and the throttle completely closed. This creates more vacuum to pull gas through the enricher circuit. After it starts, let it warm up for 30 seconds or so then close the enricher. The enricher will sometimes flood too much. If after a few kicks with on and no start, try turning it off and and open the throttle about half for a few kicks to clear the flood.
 
Very pleasing healthy as any sounding you lucky thing, even an interested wife to boot though mine took an interest on which non road worthy cycle I'd run into anothter dead end again today. Unless some limb disability its not a good practice to start on either stand so learn to straddle it like a real English gentleman. Diddle timing, though seems darn good, then back and froth on carbs to dial in best idle each then diddle slide stops for similar exhaust puffs, if ya even can get it much better than you lucked out with. Let the rain stop and your risky fun begin.
 
Hey Nielsen. That looks like a very nice Commando.

I find that mine is much easier to start if on the bike so I can push all of my weight down on the kick starter.

Try to find the top of compression by lightly pushing down on the starter until resistance is at the top...then you can get a good spin on it. If you kick in between sometimes it will fire in between and kick back and hurt your foot (I busted an ankle this way years ago).

Kicking all the way to the bottom of travel is important to avoid kickback. Not always possible if engine wants to fight back, but full leg extension held at the bottom allow the kick starter mechanism to "free wheel" so you won't get kicked back.

Some boots or thick soled shoes are important too...especially when the rubber is missing on the kick starter.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but it looked painful in the video, and it takes a little practice to get the hang of it. I struggle a little with age and being lighter than I was in my younger days.

Here's a vid of me starting mine. This was the first day I got it running.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e95rL4Ko-oc

Oops had wrong vid...changed it.

Looked like she ran pretty good for first time out of the box.
 
Hehe, nothing for it but practice till perfect but by far its the easy to start state of tune that gives repeatable non-strain-impact for more a quick 'confident' step down effort stroke should do it each and every time cold to hot states. When cold mine just needs one carb tickled till almost wet outside then key on no throttle as KS drops out below my step over TDC and crack throttle to catch it and run right to 2000+ blipping for crank sling for lifter-cam oil surfing then head out in lower gears to keep low load rpm up till about fully warmed. Any shut down and start after that usually is just key on no throttle step on to start up at dead slow idle. Low wear and tear on starter and kicker once the knack is developed. How lucky do I feel? I love the reactions when time to leave a gathering or cafe' booze lot, kind of loudly
"Hey ya know what thumb commensors are known for don't ya?"
Then I step on Trixie for her soft C'do sounds and a nice blip...
"LOWERING ONE"S IQ!"
Varrromm>Varrrom>Varrrom leaving Combat Commando peashooter notes...
 
I can't even begin to start mine off to the side like that. I have to get up on the pegs and give it good push through, but when it's warm, it almost starts itself.

After a while you'll figure out your best method.

Sounds to me like the carbs aren't quite balanced and it may be running on one cylinder at idle, play with the pilot screw and the stop screw and see if it evens out a bit, or picks up.

Here's my method http://s251.photobucket.com/user/DogTi/ ... 5.mp4.html
 
Thanks very much, all! Forums are so great! The bike has a single Mark II Amal, and there's no tickler at all. Is that unusual? After my triumph of starting it the first time, I went out to the garage a half dozen more times over the day and it started on the first or second kick. :D I know..... Proper footwear..... Proper stance..... Gawd I'm such a noob!
 
Almost everyone me included set road use idle 900-1000+ to keep charging up some and lube flowing and less absent minded stalling risks at stops but 600 or less gives wonderful sensations to share with others but also the most blow by inside and lack of oil pressure low flow wearing states. I put in thumb screw slide adjusters to diddle up or down from the saddle for showing off or normal idle use.
Lowest slowest idler I've had is my factory Trixie that came set at 450 rpm with each contact breaker set a bit above and below "ideal" for a type of self stabilizing idle curve like Trispark. My P!! dragster was set by race crew at 600 rpm for the lumpy cam hot rod idle sound with distinct deep open header blat-blat-blat hi compression releases but I didn't know better back then or would of set it closer to 1000.
 
Nielsen said:
I know..... Proper footwear..... Proper stance..... Gawd I'm such a noob!
Click to expand...

This is why I was reluctant to post that info, because I didn't want you to feel that way. I remember when I started mine, and the first start-up was not as smooth as the video I showed you...I had to think through the motions and how it was supposed to work because I hadn't done it for almost 40 years. back in the day you wouldn't dare ask someone how to do it because how could you have a Norton and not know how to kick start it.

Your video was actually kind of cool, because it captured the excitement of that first start-up. With mine, having owned one I remembered it, but when it came to life it was quite exciting and the sound was music. The big parallel British twins have a very distinctive sound...one that most of us here love. They bark to life and let you know they are alive :D
 
No worries! My ego is strong enough to admit my neophyte ignorance--and to seek help from you experts. It really was a thrill too.... Very much so. Made my weekend! Looking back over the video, what I didn't see because my back was to the exhaust, but vaguely heard, was a cough and tiny puff of smoke, two or three cranks before it caught. I'm just really glad my wife: 1) encourages my eccentricities; and 2) insisted that she should video the 'babies first cry' (which is how they describe it at the Lamborghini factory the first time an engine starts). In my dotage it'll get lots of replays :)
 
Huh, if no ticklers then chokes should be needed on cold starts or the base line mixture is too rich. I straddle bike mainly because I'd likely get hurt stumbling back after a kick gone wrong with a kick back or gone right so lever out accelerates my leg... Stands are secondary consideration to me. When I torn apart R knee 160 miles from home on 7th day of owning I had to face backwards to hop down on kicker with L leg while Combat on stand, so just get it going how ever and replace parts as needed - per Norton Commando tradition. Once dialed in should be able to use an arm to start as a number have shown us doing.
 
Nielsen said:
No worries! My ego is strong enough to admit my neophyte ignorance--and to seek help from you experts. It really was a thrill too.... Very much so. Made my weekend! Looking back over the video, what I didn't see because my back was to the exhaust, but vaguely heard, was a cough and tiny puff of smoke, two or three cranks before it caught. I'm just really glad my wife: 1) encourages my eccentricities; and 2) insisted that she should video the 'babies first cry' (which is how they describe it at the Lamborghini factory the first time an engine starts). In my dotage it'll get lots of replays :)
Click to expand...

I saw that puff and actually the building compression was a sign that it was ready...that's actually why I pointed out the technique because some of those kicks were down into the compression stroke and not quite finished which is sort of a danger zone for kick back. I had two BSA 441 Victors that were beasts to start because they were singles with high compression and would kick back big time if you didn't use the proper technique. They had a compression release lever that you held to get the kick spinning and then you would release it at the end of the kick to allow the engine to catch. On those I held my foot at the bottom of the kick so the lever free wheeled and let the lever go at the same time. If you missed time things if she kicked back it would throw you right off and onto the ground.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top