A Christmas miracle special!!!

Jagbruno · Dec 24, 2015

Hello to all,

I don't believe in fairytales.
I wasn't looking to buy yet another bike.
I am not a rich man, far from it. By sheer coincidence, a few days ago, I heard about a 'Norton project' through a friend of a friend. A few phone calls and a short trip to Germany later, (3 hours' drive from Brussels, where I live) and I met a charming man who agreed to sell me this project, I quickly sold a kidney and tadaaaaam! I am the proud new owner of this:

Hébergé par Imagesia, le meilleur hébergeur d'images du net !" />

Hébergé par Imagesia, le meilleur hébergeur d'images du net !

Hébergé par Imagesia, le meilleur hébergeur d'images du net !

Miracles DO happen! :lol:
Merry Xmas to all!

Bruno

Fast Eddie · Dec 24, 2015

Wow.

Congratulations and good luck.

Emphasis being on the 'good luck' part ... There's a lot to do and spend here, but I'm sure you've already worked that out.

Jagbruno · Dec 24, 2015

Thank you Eddie!

Yes and no. It happened so quickly, I couldn't plan for anything in fact.

I must confess I am very much a novice in the (Holy) Vincent world, and I will most likely ask a lot of silly questions in a not too distant future!

Merry Xmas and a Very Happy New Year to you!

Fast Eddie · Dec 24, 2015

Jagbruno said:
Thank you Eddie!

Yes and no. It happened so quickly, I couldn't plan for anything in fact.

I must confess I am very much a novice in the (Holy) Vincent world, and I will most likely ask a lot of silly questions in a not too distant future!

Merry Xmas and a Very Happy New Year to you!

Sounds like you better add Glen to your speed dial list, he's just been through a very impressive build!

I don't think I've seen a Norvin built using a 'low boy' frame before, they are really nice IMHO.

What's the motor like, are you planning to strip it?

Jagbruno · Dec 24, 2015

Glen?

I would be happy to meet or discuss all things Norvin with him or anybody in the know!

My engine is, according to its number, originally a B series Rapide. It has been rebuilt about 10 years ago but hasn't been on the road since. First and very superficial examination is very promissing. New valves, springs, pistons and cylinders. Distribution seems very clean and cams look new or in perfect condition. Crankcases casting numbers are matching.

I do plan to strip the engine before starting to rebuild the bike, of course.

Opinions, advice, suggestions are more than welcome!!

Jagbruno · Dec 24, 2015

The Low Boy frame is very interesting, especially in the case of a NorVin, as it allows the engine to sit lower than in a regular Featherbed frame. As we all know, the main problem when installing a Vincent engine in a Norton frame is the center of gravity position being too high (as well as too much to the rear unless the Vincent cases are cut and an external gearbox such as an AMC is installed).

Fast Eddie · Dec 24, 2015

Jagbruno said:
Glen?

I would be happy to meet or discuss all things Norvin with him or anybody in the know!

My engine is, according to its number, originally a B series Rapide. It has been rebuilt about 10 years ago but hasn't been on the road since. First and very superficial examination is very promissing. New valves, springs, pistons and cylinders. Distribution seems very clean and cams look new or in perfect condition. Crankcases casting numbers are matching.

I do plan to strip the engine before starting to rebuild the bike, of course.

Opinions, advice, suggestions are more than welcome!!

Glen as in Worntorn on here. Check out his awesome self built Egli style bike build on here.

Coming from where you do, you may wish to befriend Patrick Godet. He is French, and as everyone knows, the French work to a different time system to the rest of the world. So that can cause frustration, but his knowledge, passion, and ability with Vincent's is second to none IMHO.

What to do with your motor depends largely on what you wish to use it for and how deep your pockets are.

I had 1330cc Godet Egli and it was just awesome. But that level of performance needs a re-think about suspension, tires and brakes. I also had a 1000cc Rapide that went very well yet was very well behaved too.

My own suggestion would therefore be to keep it at 1000cc, fit mk2 cams and raise the CR to 8 or 9 to 1. Fit a good electronic ignition system. I had 30mm Mikuni's on my 1000 and they were miles better than the Shadow carbs they replaced, so these would be my recommendation too.

As yours is a chopped motor you have great freedom over gearbox, clutch and primary drive choices. There are many opinions on this of course. My own is that a mildly tuned Vin benefits from a nice 5 speed box. A TTI would be ideal. A Quaife fitted Norton would do. A Triumph T140 cluster in a Nourish shell would probably be the best balance of performance and cost.

You will have to think about your options regarding engine shock absorber and alternator arrangements.

Whatever your choices, at the end of the process (which WILL be long and WILL be expensive) I'm sure you will have a fabulous machine.

p400 · Dec 24, 2015

Merry Christmas Bruno, Looks like a fantastic Norvin project!
Thank you for the great photos!
It would be best to join the VOC forum, Vincent Owners Club, and post this material.
http://www.vincentownersclub.co.uk/index.php
I would not worry with hot rodding anything, simply put this together with minimal expenses.
Once it proves sensible, then pursue with details to suit you.

If you need to go fast, buy a Suzuki............this is a Norvin in 2016, very cool.

Jagbruno · Dec 24, 2015

Thank you both for your comments.

I have just registered for membership at the VOC! 8)

As I said earlier, the engine seems to be in excellent condition and my intention is indeed to keep it at 998cc. In the next few weeks I intent to open the engine and find out exactly what is inside. I will most probably follow your advice regarding Mk2 cams and rising the CR in a reasonable fashion.

I am afraid I couldn't afford the services from Patrick Godet...unfortunately. However, I do have many contacts in the vintage bikes world and it isn't my first project...and I don't give up easily! :mrgreen:

I have a pair of PHF 30 (as well as a pair of PHF32 and a pair of Amal MkII) and I will obviously fit a proper ignition/alternator system. The engine shock absorber is installed and in good working order.

I have secured a Quaife Norton gearbox...just today in fact.

Thank you again and Merry Xmas!

Bruno

Fast Eddie · Dec 25, 2015

Jagbruno said:
Thank you both for your comments.

I have just registered for membership at the VOC! 8)

As I said earlier, the engine seems to be in excellent condition and my intention is indeed to keep it at 998cc. In the next few weeks I intent to open the engine and find out exactly what is inside. I will most probably follow your advice regarding Mk2 cams and rising the CR in a reasonable fashion.

I am afraid I couldn't afford the services from Patrick Godet...unfortunately. However, I do have many contacts in the vintage bikes world and it isn't my first project...and I don't give up easily! :mrgreen:

I have a pair of PHF 30 (as well as a pair of PHF32 and a pair of Amal MkII) and I will obviously fit a proper ignition/alternator system. The engine shock absorber is installed and in good working order.

I have secured a Quaife Norton gearbox...just today in fact.

Thank you again and Merry Xmas!

Bruno

Sounds like it is in good hands Bruno.

P400 has a point that you could ride a Suzuki to go fast. The other way of looking at it is that a Norvin is obviously already a hot rod! So it would kinda defeat the object to de-tune it and be blown off by lower class Tritons !!

Jagbruno · Dec 25, 2015

Hahaha...no.

At the moment, when I want to go fast, I ride my Slimline Commando racer. The engine is, ahem, not really 'stock'. :mrgreen:

Lightened and balanced crank, flowed head, Dunstall bits including full period fairing, PW3 cams, that thing was clocked at near 130Mph on the Dijon circuit straight. It is my road bike.

I will not 'detune' the Norvin, but I will keep it as a fast Café Racer, rather than go the Track Racer route. I am not known for detuning my bikes... :twisted: :twisted:

Fast Eddie · Dec 25, 2015

I will not 'detune' the Norvin, but I will keep it as a fast Café Racer, rather than go the Track Racer route. I am not known for detuning my bikes... :twisted: :twisted:

Good man!

Its definitely in safe hands then.

Please do keep us well updated on your progress.

grandpaul · Dec 26, 2015

Now THIS looks like a VERY fun project!

Please post as many pix and narrative as possible, as the project progresses.

EricgGallardo · Dec 26, 2015

Congratulations, you've found something very unusual.
To reply to FastEddie comment on P. Godet, as a Frenchman I don't think Patrick is using a special time table specific to the French, he's just using a Vincent time table. For various reasons a Vincent project is always a very looonng one. For example when I did send the crankshaft of my own Norvin project to Bob Dunn (one of your fellows britons FastEddie) for a complete rebuild he did quotes a five weeks delay. That crankshaft finally came back to me after 18 months!
Patrick wouldn't be of much help for you anyway as he won't deal with you unless you buy a complete machine or send your project at his shop for a complete rebuild. The VOC would help you no end though.
With regards to the carburetors please keep this fine special with all its nice period parts free of any Mikuni or other oriental bits. New Amals are available and works great or you could use those Dellortos. I can't see the point of fitting these fines old British machines of ours with modern Japanese carbs, forks, brakes, etc. Why not buy a Jap in the first place if one wants a machine that goes, handles, sounds or brakes like a soulless modern?
My own Norvin is in a "mild" state of tune with 8:1s Omegas, MK2s, D ignition, 932s, Carrillos and 2in open pipes and as a '68 Commando and T150 engined Triton owner I can tell you that both bikes would run out of steam by the time I get to top with the Vin. In fact it feels like one and a half Commando. To cruise at 80 mph with the tacho showing less than 3500 is just great and you'll still have 2000 safe rpm to play with!
Yes, the engine will be slightly higher in a Featherbed compared to a Vincent frame, but at the moment I have a real Egli (EV3) in my garage for some work and as it sits by my Norvin it's evident that its engine is fitted two inches higher so a Norvin is better at this point and to my eyes it looks better too.
Good luck for this superb project. Hope you'll keep us updated with pics along the way.
Cheers.
Eric in France

Jagbruno · Dec 26, 2015

grandpaul said:
Now THIS looks like a VERY fun project!

Please post as many pix and narrative as possible, as the project progresses.

Patience being the mother of all virtues in this particular case, my friend!

:mrgreen:

Fast Eddie · Dec 26, 2015

EricgGallardo said:
Congratulations, you've found something very unusual.
To reply to FastEddie comment on P. Godet, as a Frenchman I don't think Patrick is using a special time table specific to the French, he's just using a Vincent time table. For various reasons a Vincent project is always a very looonng one. For example when I did send the crankshaft of my own Norvin project to Bob Dunn (one of your fellows britons FastEddie) for a complete rebuild he did quotes a five weeks delay. That crankshaft finally came back to me after 18 months!
Patrick wouldn't be of much help for you anyway as he won't deal with you unless you buy a complete machine or send your project at his shop for a complete rebuild. The VOC would help you no end though.
With regards to the carburetors please keep this fine special with all its nice period parts free of any Mikuni or other oriental bits. New Amals are available and works great or you could use those Dellortos. I can't see the point of fitting these fines old British machines of ours with modern Japanese carbs, forks, brakes, etc. Why not buy a Jap in the first place if one wants a machine that goes, handles, sounds or brakes like a soulless modern?
My own Norvin is in a "mild" state of tune with 8:1s Omegas, MK2s, D ignition, 932s, Carrillos and 2in open pipes and as a '68 Commando and T150 engined Triton owner I can tell you that both bikes would run out of steam by the time I get to top with the Vin. In fact it feels like one and a half Commando. To cruise at 80 mph with the tacho showing less than 3500 is just great and you'll still have 2000 safe rpm to play with!
Yes, the engine will be slightly higher in a Featherbed compared to a Vincent frame, but at the moment I have a real Egli (EV3) in my garage for some work and as it sits by my Norvin it's evident that its engine is fitted two inches higher so a Norvin is better at this point and to my eyes it looks better too.
Good luck for this superb project. Hope you'll keep us updated with pics along the way.
Cheers.
Eric in France

Fair point Eric. The Bob Dunn story has me beat!

And please don't let me miss-quote myself re Monsieur Godet, apart from his time management issues, I have absolute respect for him. The Vincent's that I was lucky enough to own that had been through his hands were simply fabulous.

Jagbruno · Dec 26, 2015

Eric, don't worry.

Nothing Japanese or modern will go on that bike. Or on any of my other bikes. All are pre-1972 European twins. I will keep the NorVin simple, efficient, stylish and fast.

I will more than likely use the Dellorto carbs, as I am after consistent long range performance and reliability. As I am already the proud owner of a very fast Norton slimline racer, I intent to keep this one as a fast road bike, so mild tuned engine, not too dissimilar to yours, roadholder forks, Koni or Fournales shocks, electronic ignition for reliability Amc box with Quaife 4 speed gears...I have period Borrani rims with Laverda drums, if I feel that their stopping power is not good enough, I might install an AP Racing calliper on a Norvil type disk and fork leg. For safety in modern traffic.

Nothing less, nothing more.
:twisted:

worntorn · Dec 26, 2015

A friend was visiting Bob Dunn's shop a few years ago and helped Bob load a freshly rebuilt Comet engine for delivery.
Bob sheepishly commented that the engine had been left for "no rush" rebuild 29 years earlier. True story.
Apparently you don't want to tell Bob there is no rush!
He is one hell of a craftsman though and helped me with some good advice re ignitons etc when I built my 1360 Engine. He designed the advance slopes on all of the Pazon ignition for Vincents. At his suggestion, the owner of Pazon made up an ignition curve specifically for my engine. Lots of knowledge there.

Glen

worntorn · Dec 26, 2015

EricgGallardo said:
With regards to the carburetors please keep this fine special with all its nice period parts free of any Mikuni or other oriental bits. ....... I can't see the point of fitting these fines old British machines of ours with modern Japanese carbs, forks, brakes, etc. Why not buy a Jap in the first place if one wants a machine that goes, handles, sounds or brakes like a soulless modern?

Cheers.
Eric in France

You probably wouldn't want to ride something like this - although no Mikuni carbs are present there are Japanese brakes and Suspension, US and NZ electronics, Australian engine internals and a lot of Canadian Homebrew stuff. In short a mishmash-
However, the man himself, Fritz Egli Sr.seems to like it. I was surprised and honoured to get a Facebook friend request from him the other day.

http://egli-vincent.net/2014/02/22/coul ... n-vincent/

The current engine-

vincent-1360-t19100.html

I do understand where you are coming from in not wanting to use any Japanese parts on a British Special. Mine was the opposite, I started with a very light Gixxer 600 front end and started adding things. The only original Vincent part on the bike is the primary cover, and that had about two pounds of aluminium removed for lightening and to fit around the Newby belt drive.
It does sound like a Vincent though. Only more.

Glen

Jagbruno · Dec 27, 2015

Dear Glen,

Don't take me wrong. There is nothing wrong with Japaneses parts or motorbikes, and nothing wrong with modern technology. If I had the knowledge, the finance and more importantly the ability, I could perhaps have walked a path similar to yours, starting a project from the ground up with the best parts and knowledge of today.

My path is different, I am not a mechanic, I don't have the knowledge, ability, or financial ressources to even think about a state of the art Vincent project. In fact, just a week ago I wasn't even allowing myself to pronounce this sacred word: Vincent.

But then, opportunty knocked, I made an instant decision and I am the very proud owner of 50 years old rusty bits in boxes and of a 68 year old engine. My intention is to build this project with minimal concessions to modernity, as I explained above.

That being said, I did read every word of your building saga and I am in awe with the quality of your work. Please don't be offended or surprised if I reach to you for advice once I have started my project!! 8)

Happy New Year and congratulations again!!

Bruno