961 Sales -Is it really rare or is it just scarce?

City Garage

City Garage

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I know I have brought up sales numbers numerous times but I was recently talking with a customer that we service his 961 and is involved with one of the largest automotive groups that also has some interests in the Powersports area as well. Basically someone in the know of all things automotive, dealer, sales, etc.

We discussed the rarity of the 961 and the fact that there are no solid sales numbers like you see for other manufacturers etc so its hard to determine the numbers sold and the fact that the last one on BAT sold for 10k dropping the values

He brought up a valid point I'd thought I would share. He said that the 961 failed in the "scarcity" area where a product is sold or is perceived as a limited item which should make it more valuable. He said initially supply and demand were already limited but SG Norton misjudged the market and the service issues that followed dropped the demand even further. He stated that he spoke to numerous in-the-know motorcycle collectors who don't value the 961 at all or the new Norton brand with any seriousness. You can throw a stick here in the Los Angeles area and find some rather extensive collections and he pointed out that even some very prominent collectors that have every Norton model produced made a choice not to have a 961 in their collection.

He echoed my point about the forums and other avenues where one might find other owners and agreed that there is a lower number produced than anyone thinks might be possible. Even out of the approximately 900 members of this forum, how many actually own one?

It seems that the "rarity" of the Norton 961 does not translate into higher prices even with the low numbers produced and the "scarcity" of parts which in a weird way should drive the market up but it doesn't.

I think in the 961 world scarcity actually means not enough demand.
 
I'm going to suggest another factor, and that is "Yet".

I see some parallels to the Ducati Sport Classic range - and consider it to be around 5 years ahead in maturity for want of a better word. The utterly different aftermarket and parts availability skews this, and gives it demand.

Also, forums play 2 roles. They help maintain, and increase value in the brand due to people feeling a level of support, whilst the negativity sometimes recorded within them hurts the brand.

A different forum and Anette Jean Dickenson was sufficient for me not to buy a bike in 2015........however a month or so on here around a year ago was sufficient for me to go back and buy the bike I'd wanted since then. We need to be mindful of not becoming the new AJD :D
 
Gojuu said:
I'm going to suggest another factor, and that is "Yet".

I see some parallels to the Ducati Sport Classic range - and consider it to be around 5 years ahead in maturity for want of a better word. The utterly different aftermarket and parts availability skews this, and gives it demand.

Also, forums play 2 roles. They help maintain, and increase value in the brand due to people feeling a level of support, whilst the negativity sometimes recorded within them hurts the brand.

A different forum and Anette Jean Dickenson was sufficient for me not to buy a bike in 2015........however a month or so on here around a year ago was sufficient for me to go back and buy the bike I'd wanted since then. We need to be mindful of not becoming the new AJD :D
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Agree entirely. Such anecdotal information, potentially confined to specific regions in the USA, needs be viewed in a balanced manner I think.

This forum is no doubt influential to potential buyers of SG 961’s and future Birmingham Norton models. As incredibly valuable as the forum is, if I’d have read certain of it’s content prior I don’t think that I would have purchased. As such, I would have missed out on what is the greatest riding/ownership experience I’ve had in my 40 year long obsession with motorcycles, all aspects considered.
 
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City Garage said:
I know I have brought up sales numbers numerous times but I was recently talking with a customer that we service his 961 and is involved with one of the largest automotive groups that also has some interests in the Powersports area as well. Basically someone in the know of all things automotive, dealer, sales, etc.

We discussed the rarity of the 961 and the fact that there are no solid sales numbers like you see for other manufacturers etc so its hard to determine the numbers sold and the fact that the last one on BAT sold for 10k dropping the values

He brought up a valid point I'd thought I would share. He said that the 961 failed in the "scarcity" area where a product is sold or is perceived as a limited item which should make it more valuable. He said initially supply and demand were already limited but SG Norton misjudged the market and the service issues that followed dropped the demand even further. He stated that he spoke to numerous in-the-know motorcycle collectors who don't value the 961 at all or the new Norton brand with any seriousness. You can throw a stick here in the Los Angeles area and find some rather extensive collections and he pointed out that even some very prominent collectors that have every Norton model produced made a choice not to have a 961 in their collection.

He echoed my point about the forums and other avenues where one might find other owners and agreed that there is a lower number produced than anyone thinks might be possible. Even out of the approximately 900 members of this forum, how many actually own one?

It seems that the "rarity" of the Norton 961 does not translate into higher prices even with the low numbers produced and the "scarcity" of parts which in a weird way should drive the market up but it doesn't.

I think in the 961 world scarcity actually means not enough demand.
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Exactly.
Rare doesn’t mean valuable.

How many Yugos were made?
How many pintos were made?
And as low production as these are, no serious person wants either.

I think many other modern motorcycles fit in this same category.
Example:
Triumph TFC bikes, limited production and don’t hold value.

Older classic bikes bring better value because of the “win on Sunday sell on Monday”

If SG would of been successful at the races so would the modern Norton in after sales of used bikes.
 
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I think it is very difficult to decide if a bike is going to be a future classic, desired by collectors, or a bust, only a few years after production has ended (or is almost ended). Most valuable collector bikes (Manx comes to mind) could be had for bargain prices for many years after production ended, and then fairly suddenly became valuable collector items. I was buying Commandos in the '70s for hundreds of dollars, just to get the spares I needed for race bikes. It took decades for them to morph into expensive collectible classics.

Ken
 
lcrken said:
I think it is very difficult to decide if a bike is going to be a future classic, desired by collectors, or a bust, only a few years after production has ended (or is almost ended). Most valuable collector bikes (Manx comes to mind) could be had for bargain prices for many years after production ended, and then fairly suddenly became valuable collector items. I was buying Commandos in the '70s for hundreds of dollars, just to get the spares I needed for race bikes. It took decades for them to morph into expensive collectible classics.

Ken
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Agree to a point.
Manx is a winning race bike.

The Commando 961 never won a race and to compare them to classic Commando isn’t an apple to apple comparison.

Classic commandos were more plentiful and widely known with a history and reputation. Todays 961 is hardly known or seen. It also doesn’t have a history. Unless you count scandal
 
I think in general, for a car or motorcycle to be worth serious money in years to come, it either has to have race heritage or be a poster car/bike for a generation.....or have a big story behind it.
Anything else may go up in value, but it'll never be worth an over whelming amount.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Agree entirely. Such anecdotal information, potentially confined to specific regions in the USA, needs be viewed in a balanced manner I think.

This forum is no doubt influential to potential buyers of SG 961’s and future Birmingham Norton models. As incredibly valuable as the forum is, if I’d have read certain of it’s content prior I don’t think that I would have purchased. As such, I would have missed out on what is the greatest riding/ownership experience I’ve had in my 40 year long obsession with motorcycles, all aspects considered.
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Who is this: 'Birmingham Norton' of whom you speak???

:)
 
Desirability often reflects those who were young the first time around being able to afford a nostalgic toy later in life.
Most 961 owners were older the first time around, this one was at least.
 
ntst8 said:
Desirability often reflects those who were young the first time around being able to afford a nostalgic toy later in life.
Most 961 owners were older the first time around, this one was at least.
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Every owner and customer I know is over 45
 
lcrken said:
I think it is very difficult to decide if a bike is going to be a future classic, desired by collectors, or a bust, only a few years after production has ended (or is almost ended). Most valuable collector bikes (Manx comes to mind) could be had for bargain prices for many years after production ended, and then fairly suddenly became valuable collector items. I was buying Commandos in the '70s for hundreds of dollars, just to get the spares I needed for race bikes. It took decades for them to morph into expensive collectible classics.

Ken
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But even a well done 75 Commando isnt getting more than 10k or so. There are some outliers but the Norton market is not an expensive collectible. I don't say that easily as we do restorations and rebuilds on them.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
I think in general, for a car or motorcycle to be worth serious money in years to come, it either has to have race heritage or be a poster car/bike for a generation.....or have a big story behind it.
Anything else may go up in value, but it'll never be worth an over whelming amount.
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Even Delorean had a better story!!!
 
Lots of good points here, but in the end, the only way to know if the 961 will have any sort of collector status is to wait a while and see. I think there will always be some demand for those who just like interesting bikes that never really made it big.

Ken
 
Fast Eddie said:
Bottom line:

Don’t buy a 961 as an investment. Problem solved !

Buy one cos you like it and enjoy it.

Or not.
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That is the best advice.
I never consider the future market.
If I want it, I buy it to just ride and enjoy it.
If I see something I want more, I sell something, and buy the next one.
Repeat the process ad infinitum.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Bottom line:

Don’t buy a 961 as an investment. Problem solved !

Buy one cos you like it and enjoy it.

Or not.
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Wholeheartedly agree with this.

Not sure what I think about the below sale though. I know CNW build awesome machinery but this is ‘next level’ right? Or am I missing something?

961 Sales -Is it really rare or is it just scarce?
 
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