961 is back !

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
3,152
Country flag
There's nothing about this announcement that is a negative. Negative would be Norton totally abandoning the 961 Commando platform. Frankly, I thought they would carry the Commando name forward with a new water cooled engine, which I suppose is still a possibility in the future. It's the "Commando" name that has provenance, history and importance, not the 961 engine size. IMO
Well, Dr Bob did say that they would evaluate whether or not to produce the 961 in the future. So would appear that something must have positively influenced their option of the 961. I personally never expected Norton to design, test and introduce a new twin to replace the 961. The engineers must have enough faith in the "NEW" 961 (whatever that means) that they believe they can sell and warranty it without losing money. I would love to see that calculus.
Anyway, I was certain that the next Commando would be a metamorphosed EV with the badge, but none of the history.
So the news is positive to me.
 

Voodooo

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,793
Country flag
Think I’m giving up on TVS and will just store my 961s.
 

Attachments

  • 961 is back !
    487ECD2A-B743-485E-960F-751F13F146AB.png
    301.5 KB · Views: 47

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
3,152
Country flag
If it's true that Jinlang will produce the engines, or engine components for the new 961, then perhaps they will also provide parts separately for the after market.
Perhaps they could sell them through a catalog service like EMGO.
Of course, no telling which parts will work on older 961s, and which will not.
 

Stephen_Spencer

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
896
Country flag
Again, unnecessary ambiguity but no real change - ……. “not to sell parts that we have not sourced or tested”. Is this a current statement or an old one rehashed from when this issue initially surfaced?

It follows that Birminhgham Norton has/will ‘source and test’ all parts that they use for their re-engineered 961. Ergo they will be able to sell parts that fall into that category which represents what, 99% of our bike parts. I see no change from previous statements if this is newly made. Time will show which re-engineered parts differ and may or may not be used on our bikes.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
8
Country flag
I’ll say this.
I’m glad I have what I have now. Even if it’s known for minor issues.

I wouldn’t buy a new TVS commando if I could today. Even if it is better or has the common issues fixed I’ll be happier with what I own now. Not that it’s even going to be available outside of Europe anyhow.

I’ll be honest, I don’t see TVS selling many of these.
I'm willing to wager they will sell more 961s than V4s
 

Voodooo

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,793
Country flag
I'm willing to wager they will sell more 961s than V4s
I’m not to sure about that. I think if Norton were to sell more 961 under SG, they would sold them then. Not that many people bought the 961 models.

During the SG era, not many 961 bikes sold, what is TVS going to do different to sell more? Even if they fix the quality issues, many people are stale about buying one because of the lack of support and the bad press from SG.

If and it’s a big IF, TVS does what Harley does, they won’t sell many bikes at all. How many riders under the age of 50 want a modem classic that’s not covered by a dealer network, slower than a 600cc and more expensive? I’ll take a guess and say not to many.

How many 961 bikes sold compare to other modern classics?
I agree the 961 is the best looking bike but many younger riders crave speed.
 

Voodooo

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,793
Country flag
Isnt that old news, just saying that they can't/won't sell Garner sourced parts due to the then non existant QA.
New or old news, do you think Jinlang is going to up it’s QC?
Mechanically what needs improved with the 961?
It’s mainly the ECU and sensors. The rest of the bikes fit and finish was pretty good, at least on both of mine.
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
17,591
Country flag
New or old news, do you think Jinlang is going to up it’s QC?
Mechanically what needs improved with the 961?
It’s mainly the ECU and sensors. The rest of the bikes fit and finish was pretty good, at least on both of mine.
Fit and finish was good on mine too.
But there are significant mechanical issues coming to light as owners increase miles that I sincerely hope TVS or Jinlang have / will re engineer.
 

Fast Eddie

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
17,591
Country flag
Still don't read anything in that which prevents you from buying any parts from them that are compatible, and doing your own maintenance and repairs
But we don’t know how much has changed?

It could get very expensive buying parts on a ‘trial and error basis’!

And I can see the complaints now “SCANDAL: Norton sold me parts that don’t fit and won’t re fund me” etc.

I would not be surprised if parts are only sold (to private individuals at least) who supply Norton with a VIN number for a TVS built bike so they can ensure the correct part is sold. If I’m right, that means ‘no VIN… no parts’.

Actually what Norton seem to be proposing is not really any different to what Bloor Triumph did. They launched a new company and did not support the old products at all. But it worked fine because the aftermarket sector takes care of that.

So I’d say that if Norton do not support the old bikes, they should take the shackles off of the various supplies to supply direct.
 

Stephen_Spencer

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
896
Country flag
I’m not to sure about that. I think if Norton were to sell more 961 under SG, they would sold them then. Not that many people bought the 961 models.

During the SG era, not many 961 bikes sold, what is TVS going to do different to sell more? Even if they fix the quality issues, many people are stale about buying one because of the lack of support and the bad press from SG.

If and it’s a big IF, TVS does what Harley does, they won’t sell many bikes at all. How many riders under the age of 50 want a modem classic that’s not covered by a dealer network, slower than a 600cc and more expensive? I’ll take a guess and say not to many.

How many 961 bikes sold compare to other modern classics?
I agree the 961 is the best looking bike but many younger riders crave speed.
Hey V2D3,

It was known pretty early in the game that the Garner 961’s had technical difficulties - word of this was apparent through dealer networks, with lots of internet talk from bloggers, on forums and FB etc. This would no doubt have put many off. If Norton can produce a reliable re-engineered 961, advertise the bike as such and re-establish a dealer network then I believe they will sell plenty. Way more than the (44k) V4 I suspect.

This bike has never been aimed at younger riders whether they crave speed or not - it is well outside of their financial reach. It’s aimed at old farts like you and I with the means to purchase, likely with a connection to the marque and/or who want a real British modern classic - history, heritage and patriotism for many (certainly in the UK).

The 961 does’nt compare to the vast majority of other modern classics. It isn’t a mass produced (overseas) bike with acres of plastic, brushed metal, feu components and hidden technology. Nor, obviously, is it a budget classic. It sits pretty much on its own in my opinion, using an air cooled, parallel twin push rod motor - as close to the original tech as you can get in a modern classic and giving the rider an authentic classic bike feel. Quality components and finishes at a given price point. A bit of prestige? Certainly, without paying a gazillion dollars for a modern Brough.

Given that it’s also drop dead gorgeous I suspect that it will sell. People spending that amount of money are doubtless capable of differentiating between a Garner 961 and a re-engineered model.
 
Last edited:

baz

VIP MEMBER
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
4,577
Country flag
Hey V2D3,

It was known pretty early in the game that the Garner 961’s had technical difficulties - word of this was apparent through dealer networks, with lots of internet talk from bloggers, on forums and FB etc. This would no doubt have put many off. If Norton can produce a reliable re-engineered 961, advertise the bike as such and re-establish a dealer network then I believe they will sell plenty. Way more than the (44k) V4 I suspect.

This bike has never been aimed at younger riders whether they crave speed or not - it is well outside of their financial reach. It’s aimed at old farts like you and I with the means to purchase, likely with a connection to the marque and/or who want a real British modern classic - history, heritage and patriotism for many (certainly in the UK).

The 961 does’nt compare to the vast majority of other modern classics. It isn’t a mass produced (overseas) bike with acres of plastic, brushed metal, feu components and hidden technology. Nor, obviously, is it a budget classic. It sits pretty much on its own in my opinion, using an air cooled, parralel twin push rod motor - as close to the original tech as you can get in a modern classic and giving the rider an authentic classic bike feel. Quality components and finishes at a given price point. A bit of prestige? Certainly, without paying a gazillion dollars for a modern Brough.

Given that it’s also drop dead gorgeous I suspect that it will sell. People spending that amount of money are doubtless capable of differentiating between Garner 961 and a re-engineered model.
But they'd have to prove all of the issues are sorted before point of sale IMO to gain customers trust
Not sure how you'd accomplish that?
 

Voodooo

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
1,793
Country flag
Hey V2D3,

It was known pretty early in the game that the Garner 961’s had technical difficulties - word of this was apparent through dealer networks, with lots of internet talk from bloggers, on forums and FB etc. This would no doubt have put many off. If Norton can produce a reliable re-engineered 961, advertise the bike as such and re-establish a dealer network then I believe they will sell plenty. Way more than the (44k) V4 I suspect.

This bike has never been aimed at younger riders whether they crave speed or not - it is well outside of their financial reach. It’s aimed at old farts like you and I with the means to purchase, likely with a connection to the marque and/or who want a real British modern classic - history, heritage and patriotism for many (certainly in the UK).

The 961 does’nt compare to the vast majority of other modern classics. It isn’t a mass produced (overseas) bike with acres of plastic, brushed metal, feu components and hidden technology. Nor, obviously, is it a budget classic. It sits pretty much on its own in my opinion, using an air cooled, parallel twin push rod motor - as close to the original tech as you can get in a modern classic and giving the rider an authentic classic bike feel. Quality components and finishes at a given price point. A bit of prestige? Certainly, without paying a gazillion dollars for a modern Brough.

Given that it’s also drop dead gorgeous I suspect that it will sell. People spending that amount of money are doubtless capable of differentiating between a Garner 961 and a re-engineered model.
Time will tell, but I don’t see it being a top seller at TVS
 
Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
5,973
Country flag
So how much of the effort to reengineer the 961 went into fixing the faults and how much making it Euro5 compliant.
 

BritTwit

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
3,152
Country flag
I’m not to sure about that. I think if Norton were to sell more 961 under SG, they would sold them then. Not that many people bought the 961 models.

During the SG era, not many 961 bikes sold, what is TVS going to do different to sell more? Even if they fix the quality issues, many people are stale about buying one because of the lack of support and the bad press from SG.

If and it’s a big IF, TVS does what Harley does, they won’t sell many bikes at all. How many riders under the age of 50 want a modem classic that’s not covered by a dealer network, slower than a 600cc and more expensive? I’ll take a guess and say not to many.

How many 961 bikes sold compare to other modern classics?
I agree the 961 is the best looking bike but many younger riders crave speed.
I don't think there are many riders under 50 that purchased SG's 961. I know of only one rider, 30ish who bought a 961. He is a hipster dude who owned a Triumph Bonneville (Hinckley) and traded it in to buy the 961. He had the unfortunate luck that the 961 turned out to be a lemon. Norton bought the bike back from him due to all of the issues that could not be resolved. The dude was cured of his Norton obsession, and bought an MV.

I think there are youngish folks who find the 961 irresistible, but the regrettable reliability issues prevent them from seriously considering the bike. Can't tell you how many of these youngish individuals have come up to me to complement me on the bike. But most know that the 961 has a horrible history and is kind of a joke in the industry. This is what the NEW 961 has to overcome.

If the NEW 961 is everything that the original 961 had hoped to be, Norton will sell them. Even at 80ishHP, and 500LBS, the buyers will come. It's up to DR Bob to deliver what customers want, without the drama, and heartache of the original 961.
 
Top