961 Clutch - I may be able to help.

Ken,

The Crank I believe was built by Falicon in the USA, then later when Norton took the engine away from MCT the cranks were supplied from the Taiwan supplier to a much higher standard at an absolute fraction of the cost! It really was an eye opener to see the whole quality from manufacture to packaging supply at the cost they were asking. It really is no wonder every thing is sourced from ROC
It was the same with the gearbox. In fact the whole engine and transmission went through a complete redesign/improvement process, which is why it took so long after the first 200 SE models to speed up production. The original design in fairness to both Norton & MCT was a complete no go and was probably not what Stuart expected when he bought the Commando.
As for electronic sensors? I can't really offer much help there. At some point Electrex World in the UK were involved for quite some time. May be they can help. Also Jenvey for the throttle bodies were at one point involved

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/
https://www.jenvey.co.uk/

The gears and transmission shaft splines in the later models are completely different and are absolutely NOT compatible with Baker items. maybe some of the early models are, but I can't say at which point they changed over. I think the splines may be DIN, but not sure?

The valve gear assembly and rockers received the best and most welcome design improvement in the cylinder head area.
Again from Taiwan. Astonishing improvement over the 1st generation design from the Dreer prototype.

What can't be seen from the outside of the engine is the amount of improvement that the boys in the design team actually made.
It was a huge mountain to climb, but they did some good work. Sourcing and co-design from Taiwan no doubt kept Norton going for as long as they actually did.

One issue you are always going to have is that suppliers changed regular over the years as did the design (for improvement).
Therefore its difficult to know what parts you have in your model and who supplied them, especially with the naughty trick were parts would be swapped out secretly whilst under Service back at base!
Alternator Rotor & Stator sorted maybe, situation steadily improving.
 
Hi just picked up on this thread a bit late but have an interest a- ref. the thread I created with my noisy and grabby clutch issue.

So to try to understand this from a practical owner's perspective if I strip my clutch on my 2017 CR I may not be able to get parts for it? There are suggestions that the problem is with the cush springs but as I agree that a failure at only 10000 miles shows a design flaw I would not mind this as a 3 year maintenance event and a lot of owners will not reach this mileage for years.

Surely there are thousands of spring manufacturing companies who could make replacements?

If it was possible to produce a reliable replacement unit with obtainable parts would it fit cranks of all years or did the crank fitment change?

Nicoli I think we have a very valuable asset in you and I appreciate your offer of assistance.
 
I have been meaning to get back to you on this Clive. Here is a link which will illustrate the kind of work that will be necessary to fix the 961 Clutch. This is from a Husky 610 but the principle is the same which involves disassembly , parts installed and re-riveting . A new Norton clutch was 800 pounds last I heard. It would be worth it to me if the design was improved to modern/heavy duty standards . I am not keen on the shims at all . I would prefer to use new correct length heavy duty one piece springs. There must be a clutch repair expert somewhere in UK I am sure. Your bike will be down the entire time which sucks.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/te610-outer-clutch-hub-spring-retainer-fix.25570/&psig=AOvVaw3x-LSZ8BuLkEdR0AR-etf6&ust=1588594626402000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjhxqFwoTCNjeyaXWl-kCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD
 
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Thank you so much for that it illustrates perfectly what is required. I do have full workshop facilities and access to a toolroom but I would worry about something coming loose and causing other problems if not immediately then after a few thousand miles. Like you say I would rather not spend the money on a complete clutch especially if it is not guaranteed not to happen again. And you shouldn't need to trash all of the existing bits. We need someone who can do a permanent fix and turnaround. Or once the factory is going again maybe I can pursue this as a warranty claim since I raised it as an issue before my warranty expired only to be fobbed off.
 
Hi just picked up on this thread a bit late but have an interest a- ref. the thread I created with my noisy and grabby clutch issue.

So to try to understand this from a practical owner's perspective if I strip my clutch on my 2017 CR I may not be able to get parts for it? There are suggestions that the problem is with the cush springs but as I agree that a failure at only 10000 miles shows a design flaw I would not mind this as a 3 year maintenance event and a lot of owners will not reach this mileage for years.

Surely there are thousands of spring manufacturing companies who could make replacements?

If it was possible to produce a reliable replacement unit with obtainable parts would it fit cranks of all years or did the crank fitment change?

Nicoli I think we have a very valuable asset in you and I appreciate your offer of assistance.
Not of practical help but the entire clutch on BMW K1300GT needed replacing at 5000 miles,now if that had been a Norton!
 
This is all quite enlightening and informative. Anybody remember the poor angry guy we accused of trolling for insisting our "83% British made" 961s were of Asian parts. Sorry, Bro. Shift wisely, Gents.
 
Hello to all at Access Norton.

This is my first post on your site, and although I have never owned a Norton, I may be of help regarding some components and general information.
I don't want to give away to much about my self,because at the moment the whole Norton situation is a little prickly.

Some issues that you constantly discuss and struggle to find an end to frustrates me as you are clearly in need of help.

I could begin to give a a whole Old Testament length story, but I won't.
Ask me some questions about the clutch for example, and I will try to answer them constructively.
But first:

1 - The clutch is NOT Suzuki, and never was, nor was it R6. The Kenny Dreer clutch was a Frankenstein monster of a thing and never left the table it landed on at MCT.

2- The clutch was designed specifically for the 961

3-The six Pressure Springs are unique, and not EBC and were made here in the UK
(I have some still in stock)

4-The four cush drive springs
were made here in the UK were made here in the UK (I have some still in stock)

5- I may be able to contact the original UK importer of the Friction & Steel plates, but will probably have to open a new account and buy in quantity?

The clutch was originally made and assembled in the UK, but later the components were made in Taiwan (To a very hight standard I may add), then assembled at Donington.
The clutch in a previous post with the broken drive spring is a Taiwan/UK type, not the UK Billet unit.

I have a unique insight into the development of the 961
Any information I can say, will simply be the truth. I don't want to compromise my position until the dust settles.
I hope I can help ?
Has that dust settled yet Nicoli? The chinesium rivets in my clutch have given up the ghost (at about 5,000 kilometres!). The new owners of Norton don't want to know about the problem so I'm about to re-engineer it using some Aussie ingenuity, but I would dearly love to be fitting some new and improved Norton parts - if there was such a thing.
Regards
Dan
Western Australia
 
Nikoli

Last seen Jun 14, 2020


So you need to PM him, he does not visit enough for a forum post to be of any use.
 
Hi Nikoli,
I am on my third 961, (the second was rejected but that's another story!) the current 961 Sport is a 2017 ABS Euro 4 model with 13K miles on, the vibration level is much greater on this bike, especially from 3800-5000 revs, also really noisy on the primary! On having a look the clutch centre hub was very sloppy on the mainshaft, thinking this may contribute to the noise/vibration I sourced another which is a much snugger fit, marginal improvement. Do you have any ideas as to the cause of such excessive vibration? Is it all in the clutch/ primary? Or should I start looking at crank balancing etc?
Regards Nigel
 
Was the vibration bad from the beginning or just got worse ? The easiest thing to do right now is to find some other UK 961 owners and try swapping bikes for an hour or two while you ride together and see what others think. Otherwise you can do a counter balancer bearing check by disconnecting the primary crank gear and disengage the balancer. You then need to rotate it (counterbalancer) by hand and listen . It should be quiet and smooth. Make sure all motor mounts are tight , front and rear of powerplant. Remove the oil pump before doing this , the balancer needs to be free at both ends for testing . Good luck and keep us posted .
 
Hi Tony, The vibration has definitely deteriorated, I have ridden other 961's besides my two previous, and I am talking serious vibe's here! Yes all the obvious things I have checked previously, I was hoping that as the miles went by it would 'run in' smooth out, at least the oil consumption has decreased, I am thinking of an engine blueprint, which will be costly and shouldn't be necessary, but I love the bike... so maybe!
 
Will you do it or go to Norton ? You better not wait too long. The disassembly will be easier , the getting out the bearings and New back in requires care . But you can split the cases without too much fear. The kind of vibration you are alluding to make me think counter balancer bearing or center main mounting plate. But who knows ? Do you feel the vibration while the engine is running and the bike is stationary ?
 
It's not too bad below 3500rpm then it's really intrusive up to 5K at which time it reduces a bit, but of course the 3500-5k range is where most of the riding is done!
 
Does anyone happen to know the thickness of the clutch spacers on 961? Someone said they, "made a heavy duty lock washer" as a clutch spacer but didn't give the specs on the thickness of the washer. I'd prefer to buy an actual spacer than use a random washer.

Thanks
 
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