850 MkIII Shop Manual & Parts Catalog Errors (2017)

I have also added "bookmarks" to my edit. The bookmarks only work when using Adobe Acrobat Pro or Acrobat Reader. They don't work if you use MS Edge or Mozilla Firefox or other 3rd party software for reading PDF files. When you open a PDF in Acrobat, there is a column on the left of the document. Click on the 2nd icon from the top. A menu will open on the left side of the page, revealing the bookmarks. Simply click on the desired bookmark [usually a Section of the manual] to jump directly to that section. Clicking on the icon that opened the menu a second time will hide the menu again.

chaztuna said:

I have also added "bookmarks" to my edit. The bookmarks only work when using Adobe Acrobat Pro or Acrobat Reader. They don't work if you use MS Edge or Mozilla Firefox or other 3rd party software for reading PDF files. When you open a PDF in Acrobat, there is a column on the left of the document. Click on the 2nd icon from the top. A menu will open on the left side of the page, revealing the bookmarks. Simply click on the desired bookmark [usually a Section of the manual] to jump directly to that section. Clicking on the icon that opened the menu a second time will hide the menu again.

Click to expand...

I have slowly and steadily improved the bookmark feature to my edit. No sure how long ago this happened, but at least version 101 of the Firefox web browser now supports the "bookmark" feature of Adobe Acrobat [PDF files]. My edit is a PDF file. By default in both Adobe Acrobat Reader and Firefox, bookmarks are hidden. To see this feature, do the following:


With the Workshop Manual open in Firefox, look in the top/left corner of the document. It's next to the cursor in the photo below:



Clicking that icon will cause a column to open on the left side of the document. See



You can now quickly jump directly to the Chapter or Section you wish to view, without wasting time scrolling to the desired page. Note the two dark icons in the upper/left. You need to click on the lower dark icon which is 2nd from the left to see the bookmarks.



Personally, I don't use the Chrome browser anymore. However, my experience in the past is that anytime Firefox or Chrome develops a new feature, the other browser has that feature soon after. So I suspect that Chrome now has or will soon have the ability to show the bookmark feature.

What I see (and have done for sometime) is:

L.A.B. said:

What I see (and have done for sometime) is:

Click to expand...

Yes, because you don't have the latest revision, which contains the updated bookmarks. Looks like I need to do a mass email to all of you who have previously requested a copy of my edit. That will bring you all "up to snuff". Anyone with a Mk III who has not previously contacted me and would like a free copy of my edit, contact me via private message [aka Conversations] You need to be signed in to do that.

chaztuna said:

Yes, because you don't have the latest revision, which contains the updated bookmarks.

Click to expand...

I thought so.

Here is how to access the bookmark feature when using Acrobat Reader or Acrobat Pro version 11 or 12. I'm using Acrobat Pro XI. Look on the left side of the screen, near the top for the blue icon.





Clicking on that icon will open the "bookmarks" pane. Clicking on it a second time will close the pane.

In the photo below, note my cursor is over the text marked Adjusting Tappet Clearances. This is a sub section of Chapter C.



Once I click on that link, it takes me directly to the beginning of that info. [Chapter C, Section C10] also note that the bookmark is now highlighted in blue.

I was offered a link to the MKIII repair manual in a private message. I didn't get around to responding for a few days and now it's gone. As I've never had the factory MKIII manual at all, I'd like to access that link and download the manual if that's part of the offer. Thanks for the offer and sorry for my tardyness. With regular gas approaching $6 in our area, the tiddlers are coming out of the woodwork and I have been busy with them. Bad old gas in carburettors long laid up, etc. Who knew there were so many little Hondas lurking about unseen.

Here is the latest update to the list of corrected errors, missing info added and web links directing you to additional useful info. Two recent examples are the threads here:

Regarding torque value for the camshaft gear nut.

Correcting lack of 0.008" clearance between the alternator rotor and stator. Info in published manual was a simple "copy and paste" of info from earlier manuals. That info is not valid for an 850 Mk III due to differences in the mounting design of the stator.

Another error which was difficult for me to correct was figure F4, in Section F, which lists frame dimensions. This was fixed earlier this year.

Recent Edits Names in brackets are members who either pointed out an error or aided me in fixing it. My apologies if I've forgotten anyone.


Fixed misspelling of Grant Tiller's name in the bookmarks [L.A.B.]

Fixed error in Section A Capacities for Primary Drive Oil Volume

Added note regarding camshaft sprocket retaining nut torque to Section A - Torque Settings [L.A.B.]

Updated information regarding recommended brake fluid -Sections A, F, H & K [L.A.B.]

Added note & 2 web links regarding Interstate fuel tank volume & dimension variations to Section A Capacities & Section F9 [slimslowslider & L.A.B.]

Adjusted Primary Chaincase Oil Volume in Section A [13th page] [L.A.B.]

Fixed multiple dead hyperlinks [DynoDave]

Added book marks to this manual

Added hyperlink for DIY valve spring compressor - Section C1 [Ludwig & slimslowslider]

Added note and hyperlink regarding rocker shaft removal - Section C2

Added note not to store the sprag clutch next to the alternator rotor - Section C14 Step 5 [Estuary Boy]

Added note on method to remove a stubborn crankshaft primary chain drive gear without using heat - Section C14 Step 13 [slimslowslider]

Added note to Section C16 - Step 8

Replaced Figure C21 [better quality] in Section C16 -Step 7 [L.A.B.]

Added hyperlink to crankshaft end float info - Section C19

Added note about omitted Figures C26 & C27 in Section C19

Added warning note & note regarding alternate tool to Section C30 [RennieK]

Added note regarding camshaft sprocket retaining nut torque to Section C30 Step 12 [L.A.B.]

Added missing instruction to Section C31 to install a new timing cover gasket. Missing info in all the Commando manuals [Torontonian]

Added note stating that 850 engines use a base gasket rather than Loctite - Section C33 [L.A.B.]

Added Section C33 [previously missing] with note about missing tappet R&R info. Added Old Britts tech article on this subject. [Jaydee 75?]

Added missing page in Section C34 from my source PDF file [L.A.B.}

Added note regarding added Primary drive info - Section C34 Step 27

Added Primary chain tensioner gasket notation - Section C34 Step 26 [L.A.B.]

Added note regarding added Primary drive tensioner assembly - Section C34 Step 27

Fixed my errors in Section C34 Steps 28 thru 34 Typos

Corrected erroneous advice in Section C34, step 34 [L.A.B. Estuary Boy Ron Hulton & dobba99]

Added Primary chain tensioner assembly added hyperlink - Section C34 Figure C47 [NOC]

Replaced Figure C47A with better image [L.A.B.]

Added color photo of points plate & auto advance unit to Section C40

Corrected procedure for removal of gearbox outer cover Section D3 Step 8 [L.A.B.]

Corrected procedure for removal of gearbox as a unit. Section D7 [L.A.B.]

Added note to apply sealant between countershaft gear spacer and bearing ID.

Removed comment about O-ring that does not exist in Mk III outer cover Section D10 Step 13 [L.A.B.]

Added note to Section D9 Step 20

Added notes to Sections D10 & D12 also Added note about errors in figures D06 & D08 [Estuary Boy & Torontonian]

Added additional information for installation of gearbox outer cover Section D12 [L.A.B.]

Added alternatoe method of outer gearbox cover installation Section D12 [Britbike850 & nolamax]

Added throttle cable routing tip from slimslowslider to Section E9

Added Section E11 Remove/Install the Black Plastic air cleaner box instructions.

Added missing information pertaining to R&R of the Mk III air filter box. Added hyperlink to thread on Mk III air box assembly Section E11 [L.A.B.]

Added 4 notes about error in Section F2, Figure F4. Added Figure F4 from French manual which doesn't have the error to manual [slimslowslider & L.A.B.]

Added a hyperlink to Section F4 Step 31 regarding horn installation

Added a hyperlink to Section F4 Step 32 regarding oil filter installation [L.A.B.]

Added note regarding incorrect dimension called out in Section F6 Figure F14 [L.A.B.]

Added remember to remove & reinstall the two flat washers on either side of the oil tank bottom mount. Section F10 Step 8 [Torontonian]

Added note & web link to Section F9 regarding difference in Euro and North American octane ratings

Added a hyperlink to Section F10 Step 10 regarding oil tank installation [L.A.B.]

Corrected error regarding location of Dzus fastener on the battery side cover & added hyperlink Section F11

Added notes and web link to Section G Figure G2 operation of front forks [slimslowslider, L.A.B. & dynodave]

Added note and hyperlink to new, improved threaded lock ring P/N 06-5548 - Section H4

Added better exploded view of rear wheel assembly - Section H5

Added link to Lockheed brake manual - How to overhaul the rear master cylinder - Section H10 [L.A.B.]

Added hyperlink to YouTube video Section H12

Added & edited Old Britts Electric Starter Drive Info - Section J

Added & edited Old Britts E Starter Backfire Device Info - Section J

Added 2 notes and 3 hyperlinks regarding the stock horn to Section J23 [slimslowslider]

Added note after Section J16 directing reader to Grant Tiller's color wiring schematic on page 202 [Grant Tiller]

Added note about change from 14 to 18 sprag starter sprag clutch - Sections C34 & J [L.A.B.]

Added hyperlink to Grant Tillers article on Lucas Ignition Coils - Section J11 [Grant Tiller]

Fixed errors in Section K5 regarding location of oil separator info

Fixed error in note in Section K8 [Mart UK]

The list is now to long for a single post [exceeds 1,000 characters] So here are the older edits

Older Edits circa 2018

Fixed jumbled order of Section A pages in my source document [L.A.B.]

Fixed dozens of errors in the metric equivalent numbers in Section A [likely caused by OCR software errors during manual being digitized]

Corrected erroneous torque setting for gearbox main shaft right side nut - Sections A & D [L.A.B. & dynodave]

Corrected multiple spelling errors in Section C

Added hyperlink for holding the pushrods during head installation - Section C1 Step 13 updated link 2/22/2021

Added 2 hyperlinks with improved cylinder head installation methods - Section C8 Step 3

Added hyperlink to additional info regarding primary chain automatic tensioner - Section C13

Added note to check crankshaft end play prior to splitting the crankcases - Section C16

Added note to Section C16, Step 8

Added hyperlink to Old Britts crankcase splitting tool - Section C16, Step 18

Clarified text of Section C17

Added hyperlink to forum thread on crankshaft end float - Section C19

Added note about resurface hardening the crankshaft after resizing the connecting rod journals - Section C20

Cleaned up Section C21 - Figure C26 [corrupted during editable conversion]

Added color version of Section C21, Figure C29

Fixed errors in Sections C22 & C26 [L.A.B.]

Added 2 hyperlinks regarding oil pump reconditioning - Sections C24 & C25 [David & Jimbo]

Fixed errors in Section C25 Steps 3 & 4

Added correction note about error in Section C26 - Figure C32

Added note to use Crocus Cloth rather than Emery Cloth to polish the crankshaft. - Section C27

Corrections to Section C27 [per MadNorton]

Fixed transposed pages in Section C of my source material [L.A.B.]

Added 2 hyperlinks to video on using PlasticGauge - Section C27 fixed dead link 2/22/2021 [L.A.B.]

Added note & hyperlink regarding supporting the timing idler gear shaft using Special tool 06-7325 or similar to Section C29 & Section K20.

Added warning not to rotate engine with timing chain installed without support for idler gear axle - Section C29 Step 10

Added Loctite products to use in Section C33 Step 1

Added hyperlink to Jim Comstock's YouTube video about fitting wrist pin circlips - Section C33 Step 2

Added hyperlink to Jim Comstock's YouTube video on Piston Installation without using ring compressors - Section C33

Added note regarding stronger substitute for clutch locating circlip Section C34 Step 8 [worntorn]

Added note & hyperlink about DynoDave clutch Rod seal - Section C34 Steps 12 [dynodave]

Added note regarding sealing of intake manifolds to cylinder head

Corrected Gearbox Mainshaft to Clutch torque Section C34 Step 13 [dynodave & slimslowslider]

Added hyperlink to Section C35 - Clutch [dynodave]

Clarified text in Section C37 [L.A.B.]

Added hyperlink to gearbox layshaft bearing replacement info - Section D5 Step 7 [David]

Corrected Mainshaft nut torque in Section D10 Step 8 [dynodave & L.A.B.]

Added missing steps to remove/dismantle/reassemble carburetors - Section E5 Step 22

Added Tip from Bennie regarding throttle cables - Section E9 [slimslowslider]

Added note regarding cleaning of air filter element - Section E10 [kommando]

Corrected time interval for air filter cleaning and replacement Sections E10, K2 & K3 [kommando]

Added hyperlink for DIY rear shock spring compressor video - Section F7

Added note regarding incorrect dimension called out in Figure F14 Section F6 [L.A.B.]

Added note with hyperlink to Section F9 & Section K Routine Maintenance Section regarding differences in Octane ratings between Europe & North America

Added hyperlink to Old Britts article regarding retro fitting Pea Shooter silencers to the Mk III in Section F18

Added hyperlink to Old Britts article regarding alternate method of securing exhaust pipes to cylinder head in Section F18

Added color versions of Figures G2 & G3 [L.A.B.]

Corrected incorrect thread call out in Section H4 & H5 Step 5

Added 11 hyperlinks to online articles regarding brake caliper and master cylinder overhaul - Sections H9 & H10

Added Battery upgrade hyperlink to Section J 5

Added hyperlink to Section J 7 info regarding early and late charging system warning light assimilators

Fix hyperlinks to Section J 23 regarding installation of air horns to replace the lame stock horn [slimslowslider]

Added 3 hyperlinks to Section J 26 in regard to upgrading Prestolite starter motor to 4 field windings & 4 brushes [dynodave NOC MAP Cycle]

Added note regarding time interval for changing brake fluid - Sections K2, K3 & K12

Added hyperlink to Wikipedia about brake fluids - Section K12



Still To Do

Section D12 rewrite

Thomasa said:

I was offered a link to the MKIII repair manual in a private message. I didn't get around to responding for a few days and now it's gone. As I've never had the factory MKIII manual at all, I'd like to access that link and download the manual if that's part of the offer. Thanks for the offer and sorry for my tardyness. With regular gas approaching $6 in our area, the tiddlers are coming out of the woodwork and I have been busy with them. Bad old gas in carburettors long laid up, etc. Who knew there were so many little Hondas lurking about unseen.

Click to expand...

Thomas, that private message is still there, unless you deleted it. It's just not shown, as it's now a bit dated. To access all your old private messages, look at the bottom of that window and click on "Show All". See



There is no "link" to the manual. It is not available anywhere on the web, as it is still a work in progress. I still have to update Section D12 [gearbox outer cover]

My PM explained the issues, directed you to this thread and instructed you to PM me with your user name, real name and email address, if you wanted a copy. I could then add you to my list and email you the edited manual and a text file outlining the changes. Those changes, as of today, are outlined in two previous posts to this thread today.

chaztuna said:

Here is how to access the bookmark feature when using Acrobat Reader or Acrobat Pro version 11 or 12. I'm using Acrobat Pro XI. Look on the left side of the screen, near the top for the blue icon.

Click to expand...

Also works with Firefox Document Viewer.

I checked out the bookmarks feature in Adobe and it works flawlessly. Thanks Chaz

Just a note to say that Les [L.A.B.] sent me a PM about how lame the bookmark feature he had was, compared to what is shown in Monday's photos. That was because he had a 5 month old copy of the manual. The June 13th update only has "sub section" bookmarks for Sections A & C. Sooo...., realizing that it would be more useful for all of you to have that feature for all the Sections, I spent the majority of yesterday morning creating those [except for Section D, which isn't finished yet]
I sent out that update yesterday, the 14th. I'm a bit concerned that the update might end up in your spam folder, as it went out to 70+. Please check your spam folder if it's not in your Inbox.

dethleffs7870, you PMed me, asking for a copy, but you never responded to my reply asking for your email address.

Big Shout out to Charlie for all his hard work updating the manual. Thanks Charlie; your edits and updates have really helped me as I work my way through my '75 MkIII, particularly as I delved into the engine. Highly recommended for all those MkIII owners!

I just received a report from Gumpy knob [Alan] that there is a conflict in the Mk III Workshop manual, regarding the torque for the oil pump retaining nuts. Section A, page 18 states this as 15 lbs/ft. Section C30, step 13, page 59 gives this torque as 10 to 12 lbs/ft. Which is correct?? The lesser figure?
Perspiring minds want to know!

FYI, since the update of June 14th, I've fixed a dead web link in Section C1, reported to me by a member. I've also clarified some information in Section J and made further improvements to the bookmark feature.

PS Thinking about this a bit, I wonder if the 15 lbs/ft figure is for the oil pump mounting studs and the 10 -12 lbs/ft figure for the nuts. General practice is to torque the studs slightly higher than the nuts, so that when the nut is removed, it doesn't come out with its stud attached.

chaztuna said:

I just received a report from Gumpy knob [Alan] that there is a conflict in the Mk III Workshop manual, regarding the torque for the oil pump retaining nuts.
.
.
.
PS Thinking about this a bit, I wonder if the 15 lbs/ft figure is for the oil pump mounting studs and the 10 -12 lbs/ft figure for the nuts. General practice is to torque the studs slightly higher than the nuts, so that when the nut is removed, it doesn't come out with its stud attached.

Click to expand...

Mk3s had (or mostly had?) 14-0219 "UNF"*(according to AN but UNC according to other sources) bolts and washers, not (all) had UNF nuts and outer stud ends so the torque reference in Section 'A' I believe is wrong as it appears to have been carried over from the pre-Mk3 manual and the reference to "nuts" in 'C30' is not entirely correct as later Mk3s had bolts.
If I remember correctly John Hudson said in his engine rebuild video that 10-12 lbs. ft. was sufficient.
*(The case is Helicoiled)


The Mk3 parts book drawing, however, still shows studs and nuts.

L.A.B. said:

snipped
The Mk3 parts book drawing, however, still shows studs and nuts.

Motorcycle parts and spares for Norton motorbikes - Genuine Andover Norton Spare Parts - Andover Norton Motorcycles Parts - Original Andover Norton Parts

Motorcycle parts and spares for Andover Norton motorbikes: Andover Norton manufactures and supplies all Genuine Factory Spare Parts for Norton motorcycles built before 2002.

andover-norton.co.uk

Click to expand...

Andover Norton's site also shows studs and nuts for the Mk III oil pump.

Andover Norton Mk III Lower End Exploded view

Inspecting the 1970 & later Workshop Manual, Section A, page 24 shows the same 15 lbs/ft for the oil pump stud nuts. Section C30, Step 12 [page 67] shows the same conflict, as it reports 10/12 lbs/ft torque requirement. So, it does appear that this is an earlier error, simply copied and pasted into the new Mk III manual.

Might other members report on the oil pump fasteners [bolts or studs and nuts] in their Mk III engines? Year and month of manufacture [or engine serial number] would be greatly appreciated.

PS, the photo Alan sent me of his damaged crankcase half shows a HeliCoil in the threaded hole. This fits with your report of HeliCoiled oil pump mounting holes in the crankcase. His damage was caused by a faulty torque wrench.

chaztuna said:

Andover Norton's site also shows studs and nuts for the Mk III oil pump.

Click to expand...

Yes, I discussed this Mk3 studs-and-nuts or bolts-and-washers question (by PM) with Joe Seifert (ZFD) some time ago.

I was informed he would look into it further when he had some spare time as he was aware the case/inner stud end /bolt thread is UNC so either the bolt part number is wrong or the bolt sold as 14-0219 should be UNC (it looks like UNC in AN's picture to me).

That was over two years ago.

A bit more on my tutorial on using the Bookmark feature in Adobe Acrobat [PDF files]. You can "nest" bookmarks inside of bookmarks. This would be done to direct the reader to a page or sub section in an already installed bookmark. In our case, sub sections of the main Sections of this manual. When I started, I simply created bookmarks to locate the first page of each section. I have since gone on to create bookmarks for each subsection of each Section. Study the photo below. Note that some of the Section bookmarks have a "plus" sign to the left. That plus sign indicates that there are sub section bookmarks inside that Section bookmark. Note that Sections A thru C, & Section E have this plus sign. That indicates to the reader that more bookmarks are nested inside.

You can see these nested bookmarks in Section F. Note that Section F shows a "minus" sign to it's left. That indicates that the nested bookmarks are now visible. To view nested bookmarks, simply move your cursor over the disired plus sign and click it [left mouse button]. The plus sign will change to a minus sign and the nested bookmarks will be visible. To close the nested bookmarks simply click on the minus sign.

L.A.B. said:

Yes, I discussed this Mk3 studs-and-nuts or bolts-and-washers question with Joe Seifert (ZFD) some time ago.

I was informed he would look into it further when he had some spare time as he was aware the case/inner stud end /bolt thread is UNC so either the bolt part number is wrong, or the bolt sold as 14-0219 should be UNC (it looks like UNC in AN's picture to me).

That was over two years ago.

Click to expand...

Les, Hopefully, the members will respond to my request in post 77 to resolve this issue. In the interim, I am making a "probationary" edit of page 18 as shown below: