73 Commando 850 help!

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jzmax22

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Recently I inherited my father's 73 850. It sat out side covered for 2 years, then in the back corner of an old carriage garage for another 7.
I've finally found the time to tinker with it to get it running. The bike is still in great shape and was running when it was first put away. So far I've drained and replaced all the oil, drained and resealed the gearbox and primary chain case, New battery, and cleaned the carbs with new bowl seals.

So after all that, the Kickstart seems to just whoosh to the ground likes it's not engaging anything.

I would also like to know where to hand crank the engine to see if it's seized or not. And go from there.

Any help or advice/tips would be greatly appreciated.

I'm new to British bikes
 
Are you pulling in the clutch while trying to kick it over? That would make it do that.
 
I would also like to know where to hand crank the engine to see if it's seized or not.
I never did find the convenient place to turn the motor over, except for using the transmission, bumping against the gears by turning the rear wheel with the bike in gear and on the center stand (or with the rear wheel off the ground by some other means).
If you pulled the plugs, dropped some sticks or straws in the plug holes and watched them with the bike in fourth gear while turning the rear wheel (and assuming the chain is in place and trans is working), you should see the sticks or straws moving up or down. You cd even skip the straws and see the piston move with a flashlight.
FWIW, my kickstarter lever got floppy when the trans layshaft bearing failed. If the original bearing is still in there, it's a very real safety hazard, and must be replaced.
 
Thank you for all the quick responses.

I am pulling in the clutch when trying to Kickstart in neutral.

About a year before the bike went into hiding my father had spent some money maintaining the bike. So anything that should have been upgraded was.

Is the Kickstart pawl something easy to check? Should i just follow original shop manual. It doesn't really cover the Kickstart mechanism.
Thanks again for all the replies.
Would love to get this thing running!
 
Don't pull the clutch in - it needs to be engaged to transmit the kick to the engine
Cheers
Rob
 
Well i guess if the kickstart wont move with the clutch not pulled in then im guessing i have a seized engine?
 
Don't leap to any conclusions, Nortons are not the easiest engines to kick over. Why not remove the spark plugs, put the bike in gear and see if the engine turns when you push the bike forward.

Do however be prepared to do some work on it if it has sat around for 9 years. If the engine has not been turned over during this time I would expect some corrosion in at least one cylinder and one or two valve faces. I think it is almost inevitable that you will have to remove the barrel and head if you want to recommission this machine, but go slow and steady, it's not rocket science but there's a reason the Brits drink tea, fixing British bikes requires a lot of patience and pondering!
 
Well i guess if the kickstart wont move with the clutch not pulled in then im guessing i have a seized engine?

Not necessarily. If you have the bike in gear, rather than neutral, you will be trying to turn the transmission as well as the motor while using the kickstarter.
In fact, my bike has so much compression that even in neutral, I can stand on the kickstarter (in certain positions, and I don't weigh very much) without it moving down.
Get the rear wheel up and move the shift lever up and down untill the wheel is free to rotate, or is free to move with the bike on the ground and the clutch lever out. Then you know you're in neutral.
 
I hope you don't mind me stating the obvious but:

1. Put bike on the centre stand

2. Ensure the bike is in neutral, rear wheel can turn by hand.

3. Remove the spark plugs (it will make it easier to kick over)

4. Attempt to use the kickstart (do not use the clutch lever)

5. If the kickstart won't move select 4th gear (you might have to rock the rear wheel back & forth while changing gear to get the gears to change). Once in 4th gear see if you can turn the wheel slightly which should also move the pistons. If the pistons move slightly go back to No. 2 above & try again.

If the pistons just won't move members on this forum with more experience than me can give you advice on what to do next :D
 
jzmax22 said:
So after all that, the Kickstart seems to just whoosh to the ground likes it's not engaging anything.
Click to expand...



jzmax22 said:
I am pulling in the clutch when trying to Kickstart in neutral.
Click to expand...

Doing this in neutral with the clutch in is the procedure for freeing up your clutch plates.

To start the bike, first do the above. Then, kick the bike in neutral with the clutch OUT.

You must tickle the carbs first. Page 14 of he link below for.the start procedure.

http://britmoto.com/manuals/Manuals/Riders_3.pdf
 
Wow, lots of things to check, thank you so much guys! Going down to garage later today with a checklist now! I'll report back!
 
re; "So after all that, the Kickstart seems to just whoosh to the ground likes it's not engaging anything. "

Broken or no primary chain or no clutch plate will have the same effect :!:
 
Bernhard said:
re; "So after all that, the Kickstart seems to just whoosh to the ground likes it's not engaging anything. "

Broken or no primary chain or no clutch plate will have the same effect
:!:
Click to expand...

So it turns out, I was pulling the clutch in when kick-starting.

Today I've sprayed done penetraing oil in the plug holes to see if that helps.
Right now I can stand on the Kickstart, all 190lbs. And it didn't budge, so I'm guessing something is froze. Letting the oil sit for a bit to try and losen things up.
Anywhere else to check to see why kick isn't moving.

I'm trying to not ram on it too hard, don't want to break anything

Thanks again!
 
jzmax22 said:
I'm trying to not ram on it too hard, don't want to break anything
Click to expand...

Smart man. Best to go about this at a deliberate speed and methodically.

Let it soak for a bit. Look down the sparkplug holes to see what you can see (ex. shiney bores or rust or corrosion on the piston crowns. How did the sparkplugs look when you pulled them, rusty?

After the soaking, get it on the side stand and place the gearbox in fourth gear and start rocking the back wheel a bit to see if anything jars loose. If that fails, try it again with the primary cover off with someone observing the crank/alternator to see if there is a hint of movement. The last resort is putting a socket drive onto the alternator nut to see if it turns. There's a chance that the alternator is knackered up and has seized the rotor; you will just need to take it a step at a time and see.

Good luck!
 
Ok, I'm a bit a newbie to the British bikes, where is the crank /alternator located? Is this located in the primary chain case?

I looked in the plug holes as best I could, I couldn't see anything, looked like the liquid I sprayed in there. Is there a way to drain the engine?
When I was changing the fluids, a motorcycle friend recommended I put a little oil down in the plug holes as well. .

Still stuck, I may let it soak over night.
I can't do too much with the bike the center stand, both tires are roached. Dry rotted from sitting. If I get it running, new tires are my first purchase.

Also , best recommendations for penetrating oil? I'm using PB blaster, I usually use seafoam deep creep. I be also heard good things about MMO.

Thanks again guys.
 
Make a mix of half automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Fill each cylinder from the spark plug hole
and put the plugs in a few turns.
Give it a week to soak, check daily and refill if necessary.
Dont rush. Take your time and let it take its.
Put it on the centre stand , engage gear, grab rear wheel and bump it forward and backwards.
Let us know how you make out.
Patience.
 
Onder said:
Make a mix of half automatic transmission fluid and acetone.
Click to expand...

+1 on the acetone and ATF. Pretty much better than anything commercially available to the general public.

The alternator is inside the primary cover on the LH of the bike.

As mentioned before, go easy on it as something else may be jammed up good and you don't want to do more damage. When you get back at rocking the rear wheel, see if you can observe movement and where. Does the primary chain snatch? Does all movement stop at the crankshaft (end of alternator)?

I take it that your father is no longer with us to ask. Anyone else (friend) have some insight on this bike and why it sat?
 
I tried the mixture of transmission oil and acetone. They seemed to be dissimilar and would not mix together (immediately stratified into the two products).
I had read on this site about Kroil being rated as the best penetrating oil on the market. I bought some on-line and have to agree it is far superior to any other
product I've had experience with.

Missing from the otherwise good advice being given is: Buy the service manual and Parts manual for the year/model of your Commandol!!!!! You can't hope to understand a Commando without these and if you don't want to invest the time and money into the bike you should pass it on to someone who does. Read through them while being patient and letting the penetrating oil sit on top of your cylinders for a long long time.
Look in the "Technical Information & How To Post Photos" section of this forum within the "Norton Commando Classic Motorcycles" area for these and lots more
useful information.
 
The bike sat because my father got to old to Kickstart it, my brother and I didn't love close enough to help him. thankfully he is still with us. He hid it in my garage from his previous wife.
The year before it sat he brought to the only local British bike expert and had some work done, new carbs, seals, isolastic shocks all around, new seat. It ran real well, just got neglected.
I'm trying to bring back to life.
I'm in no rush , so waiting is not an issue. You guys have been awesome and very knowledgeable.

I do have the original shop manual and tools.

So when I look in the plug holes, looks like there alot liquid. I hope it's just the PB blaster I put in there, but I don't see anything shiny.

Thanks again
 
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