73 850 Cafe Racer - Ride Position Options

I have moderately modified '73 850. Pictures here: https://1973nortoncommando850caferacer.shutterfly.com
They elements include:
Corbin Seat.
Dunstall Rear Sets
Fully Adjustable Ace Condor Cafe Bars.

Me:
I have a slew of modern sportbikes and trackbikes. My daily rider is a Ducati 1098 and I regularly ride a '95 Aprilia RS250 street bike. The point - I'm comfy with a fairly aggressive ride position.

However, I find my Norton meets my own hipness factor but not very rideable. I find I'm sitting too far back in the seat; the Corbin seat is sloped rear ward, forcing me back. Next the handle bars are .. well.... I don't how to say this bit not "right". And the foot peg locations etc all are not working... Can't quite articulate the sole reason - but likely a combination of all these variables. Someone recently said: "With Commando rear sets like yours it’s kind of like holding a cinder block out in front of you at arms length while you’re on the crapper. It’s awkward but can be done."!! I can't agree more!

I've modeled my bike after... Kenny Cuming's in NYC (Obviously!)

http://nycnorton.com/nyc_bikes/nyc-nort ... -roadster/
and
http://www.napaliprop.com/72-Commando.html

Note: Both these bikes have similar foot peg locations. Pegs are just below the side cover "C" in Commando. A normal bike has pegs almost below the front end point of the side cover, well past the "o" in Commando. That's almost a foot forwards!

There there is this one; owned by of my local NCNO riders from a lot of cNw ycomponents.

http://www.daranok.com/classic-norton-7 ... eat-color/

However, this one does NOT have the Dunstals and the stock peg locations are a lot more forward.

So, where do you suggest I start?

A different bar is the easiest. Of course the "look" will change (oh my vanity - I'll live with that I guess), perhaps:
European
DragBar
or
Norman Hyde (I think you suggested the Norman Hyde last year)

Or what do you suggest... getting a different seat and/or redoing the pegs... OR?

Thanks!

SvenSven

Howdy buddy

It sure is a motorcycle, if you want some ideas have a look at ludwigs , that will keep you busy for a year or two. Or

J

Get rid of all the tomfoolery and sculdugery and do this in black and gold!

It'll be last suit you'll ever wear!!

I have two commandos, a '72 combat café racer, and a '75 mk3 roadster. I also have an '85 Honda VF1000R, and am 48 years old.

First I can tell you that aside from my Harley the '75 mk3 is the most comfortable to ride for any length of time. it has standard foot rests, euro bars, and a corbin gunfighter seat. the ergos are perfect. I think the older I get the less I can stand the "crotch rocket" riding position. if I ride the Honda or the combat for more than 45 minutes my fingers go numb and my back starts to ache.

that being said, the first thing I noticed with your bike is the combo of rear sets with the roadster tank / corbin smuggler seat (which I think is a cool seat BTW).

Rear sets were developed to position the rider back behind a larger fuel tank, and into a more aggressive riding position for racing. my combat has the 5 gal Gus Kuhn tank which is about 6 / 7 inches longer than the standard roadster tank that you have. it is also set up with clip-ons and not a bar and is a very aggressive riding position.

So being able to compare riding positions back to back, as I often do on a Sunday morning, my suggestion would be to go to standard foot rests, and maybe a euro or drag bar with your bike, or if you prefer the clubmans and rearsets look into a longer tank / seat combo that will move your body back futher to the rearsets. pics below:

vuuduu 21
Your pictures of BOTH bikes are most helpful...
I figured based on a bunch of research.. it is the combo of rear sets AND the low Ace Condor Bars creating the issues which are complex. Changing the bar to Euro or Drag etc is easiest and relatively inexpensive thing to start with. The dang rear sets however are more complex as I really like the ability to have a different shift patterns. Not the mention how much time and money I spent fixing the kick starter conflicts with shifters and the peashooters pipes and finally going to a MkIII kick starter which itself was not cheap... BUT we don't own Commando's because they are practical, inexpensive or... We do it because.. well we can!

Any other opinions are MOST welcome!

Cheers for now..
SvenSven

BUT we don't own Commando's because they are practical, inexpensive or... We do it because.. well we can!

Click to expand...

Amend to that great wisdom summary. The main thing that's causes discomfort is the bad posture on worn out necks spinal cored and nerves. Nothing for it back trial and error depending on your spinal condition and sense of profile style to show off in public. Having knee's bent more to a squating position with butt placed more rearward and bars more or less elevated with grips angled backward sure helped me at 6' 1" stay comfy all day long 1000 miles and not want to get off to break the trace of being one with my Commando. I liked rear sets with T140 8" lift wide bars the best as could lever better off road snatches and sit up right like gentlemen at his desk, stand straight up on pegs w/o bending to stay on throttle grip and put head down between bars for hi speed run with my hands about ear level so no hindrance to streamlining tuck in w/o hurting neck back or arms endurance. So mostly a matter of health-age wisdom vs sense of style for how ever long ya can stand it.

With my Intermuttsterstate (Interstate tank, Roadster site panels, Old Britts (?) rear sets, custom solo seat, Euro bars) I find the compromise very good. I have pretty long legs, and the combo of rear sets with a slightly more upright Euro bar is pretty optimal, for even longer rides. The only downside of it is that the rear of the tank is just slightly too wide, and really would like come cut-outs. But, I cant do that to the tank...

Sadly when it comes to bikes, you'll find that rearsets/bars are VERY rider specific. I'm a shorter guy so can easily get away with really mild rear sets even on race bikes to tuck myself comfortably behind a tank.

Basically if you think about it, your seat registers your bottom end somewhere on the bike comfortably. You have some room to move forward and back, but your seating position is inherently determined on most seats by the seat contours (too far back and the seat becomes really wide and uncomfortable, etc...). The bars place your hands, and your arm angle and back arching places your entire upper body. The foot pegs place your feet and your leg lengths place your leg angles and your neutral foot angle.

In an ideal situation, how you set up a bike is to place the rider CG where it needs to go (on older bigger GP hondas it was typically very far back, not the case on a lot of bikes). Then you set up the riders upper body at a neutral position that allows for good comfort, and arm angles. Then you place the bars there, and adjust the angle of the bars and controls to sit neutrally with your hands. Then you bend your legs comfortably, putting in knee dents if needed on longer leg'd riders, and place the footpegs where you need them. Then you finally place the rearsets to match your neutral foot angle. Any deviation from this, and your bike becomes less and less comfortable. :shock:

Sadly, the typical rearset + ace bar mod set doesn't suit a lot of different body styles especially if the placement is not thought out.

My suggestion is to sit on your current seat, and walk yourself through the set up I just described above, and get different bars to place your upper body how you want it and move the rearsets to place your lower body how you want it. The beauty of a linkage'd rearset is that it's not that difficult to move them around and still have them work. Tomaselli clip ons are also great to set up your upper body position.

SvenSven said:

I find I'm sitting too far back in the seat; the Corbin seat is sloped rear ward, forcing me back. Next the handle bars are .. well.... I don't how to say this bit not "right". And the foot peg locations etc all are not working... Can't quite articulate the sole reason - but likely a combination of all these variables. Someone recently said: "With Commando rear sets like yours it’s kind of like holding a cinder block out in front of you at arms length while you’re on the crapper. It’s awkward but can be done."!! I can't agree more!

Click to expand...

You could also try a seat more similar to this, if you find the Corbin is too much too the rear. I have read from a few it is comfy.



http://britishbikebits.com/cafe-racer-p ... 724_fmSwRp

There are other stylish options I'm keeping in mind as my age and life style opinions change.

So anyone have stock controls for sale?
Left and Right side Foot pegs, bolts, studs, nuts, shifter, sift rubber, break pedals.

Thanks.

Hi Sven,
I'm with vuuduu on this one. His is the same setup as mine. Euro bars, standard pegs and Corbin seat. Comfortable around town and on the highway. The problem with the Euro bars and standard pegs is that the standard seat allows you to slide backwards and you are always gripping the tank with your knees to stay in the right place. Very tiring after a short while. The Corbin seat solves the problem. By the way, my bike was made just before yours, April '73 also with a #303***.
Nice bike, keep up the good work.

Ken

Oh, by the way, your rear brake will work much better with the stock brake lever. Much better leverage. Also, the kickstarter won't foul the standard pegs like the rearsets do.

So how many of the parts that are on my current Dunstall setup will transfer over to the OEM setup? Clearly, I need a new shifter and indicator pointer thingie (why not!) and both left and right foot rests. But I can likely transfer my foot pegs, rubbers etc. Can I also use the same Rear Brake foot lever and all that switch gear. I can likely re-use most of bolts, nuts and studs etc to mount the foot rests or get them from a non metric hardware store or SS etc

People... can anyone get me the Left & Right foot rests and a shifter?

Cheers!
-->SvenSven

hobot said:

There are other stylish options I'm keeping in mind as my age and life style opinions change.

Click to expand...

OH MY GOODNESS!

So anyone have stock controls for sale?
Left and Right side Foot pegs, bolts, studs, nuts, shifter, sift rubber, break pedals.

Click to expand...

Nothing fits like a leather glove or boot soaked then used till dry and reoiled. So midnightoilamp has right concept sit in best spot or get seat that allow this then put feet and arm in natural best-ish position then rationalize how much all out racer style to sacrifice per ride and after effects tolerated. Also even healthy young folks will hurt after while in same 'ideal' position so making provision to shit body loads for another spell goes a long way to nil bother to ride risky steeds. Sorry about the too flashy too stylish seat chopper but mean to display a more sesnable foot forward and bend back bars with a hi backed seat ya just lean back in. I've talked riders and ridden ape hangers and can say its most hip action steering on them. If too spinal or circulatory decayed infirm ya can't even rest in bed or at work desk w/o side effects. I have decided that after side car on Peel must create a knock out Commando comfy chopper kept well waxed to wash off the thrown eggs and rotten produce by serious Nortoneers. Lack of achy body when they're not around should be worth it though.

My favorite combination is a Roadster tank, Corbin seat and rear sets with a Euro bar.

Worse setup ever is a stock Interstate with Euro bars. It put's you into a position that would offend any chiropractor.

For me on out of state Interstate tank legs best was huge tank bag to lay chest on T140 bars, rearsets and fork brace foot bar and going fast enough the wind help support upper body too. Tranced out alert one with the Commando just thinking effort as best way to travel. This year took me two rides on SV650 not to feel upper back/neck muscle complaint in few min but since then ok to forget about me and pay attention outwardly more. Even so what position works to get to payment not comfy on pavement and neither comfy to control tension for kicking up heels. Before I healed up neck injury I'd hurt neck to r hand so much I'd have to let go but if tensioned up for some strafing it went away till relaxed again sane riding. The angle the tail bone sits d/t seat back or reach to bars makes a big effect all the way up. Like low heel earth shoes or hi heeled cowboy boots - just depends which works best for who and only one way to know. Just don't wear the roots shoes to a cowboy stomp even if it hurts eh.

I was fortunate enough last week to attend the monthly Nation's Capital Norton Owner's (http://ncno.org) meeting. This is a very seasoned group with large membership. There was at least 15 Commando's including several with similar Corbin seats, and lower bars... from highly specialized cNw styles to darn right stock. I sat n several. They all felt much more comfortable. Seems the single most offending part is the rear set. Again, I ride sportbike and track bikes all the time, so rear sets in and of themselves do not offend me on street bikes. It seems the geometry of rear sets on Commando's is "too far back". Perhaps due to kick starter and other limitations. As a result, my feet are over 12 inches back and 2 -3 inches lower. This is not safe or useful for street riding. I'd not say the same about my Ducati 1098 or Aprilia Rs250! So, its not just rear sets as a whole.

As a result, I've decided to look for stock or near stock pegs...and replace the Dunstall/Clubman RearSets. Then, and only then, consider a drag bar or EuroBar, but only IF necessary.

SvenSven

Sounds like a solid move.

I notice with my MK3 std foot rests and euro bars my knees and hands are pretty close to each other. when you test your new configuration make sure they clear each other at full lock (left and right) if you are still using the ace / clubman bars. On my CB750 café racer I had std footrests and clubman bars but I just angled them up abit.

check eBay for the std. foot rest hardware, shouldn't be hard to locate.

SvenSven said:

I was fortunate enough last week to attend the monthly Nation's Capital Norton Owner's (http://ncno.org) meeting. This is a very seasoned group with large membership. There was at least 15 Commando's including several with similar Corbin seats, and lower bars... from highly specialized cNw styles to darn right stock. I sat n several. They all felt much more comfortable. Seems the single most offending part is the rear set. Again, I ride sportbike and track bikes all the time, so rear sets in and of themselves do not offend me on street bikes. It seems the geometry of rear sets on Commando's is "too far back". Perhaps due to kick starter and other limitations. As a result, my feet are over 12 inches back and 2 -3 inches lower. This is not safe or useful for street riding. I'd not say the same about my Ducati 1098 or Aprilia Rs250! So, its not just rear sets as a whole.

As a result, I've decided to look for stock or near stock pegs...and replace the Dunstall/Clubman RearSets. Then, and only then, consider a drag bar or EuroBar, but only IF necessary.

SvenSven

Click to expand...

Sven, how are you,

It's your bike mate you can do what you like.
J