1970 rebuilt commando wheels not turning

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Eric1109

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I had wheels on my commando re done. All new parts bearings spacers etc. I have checked and all parts seem to have been put in correct order. However when I try to torque wheels down they won't turn. When I release torque they spin. Is it because hubs are binding on the drum side when tightened. I'm running drums front rear. Can't figure out what issue is.
 
Eric1109 said:
I had wheels on my commando re done. All new parts bearings spacers etc. I have checked and all parts seem to have been put in correct order. However when I try to torque wheels down they won't turn. When I release torque they spin. Is it because hubs are binding on the drum side when tightened. I'm running drums front rear. Can't figure out what issue is.
Click to expand...
“Seem to have” or “confirmed they have” …?

Sounds to me like the spacer between the bearings could be missing ?
 
Yup, there's a spacer that bears the load from the axle on both the inner races, so when you tighten the axle the spacer takes the axle tightening force applied to both inner races. If it wasn't there then the inner races would apply pressure through the ball bearings to the outter races and your bearings would be under side load from your axle. The wheel spacer allows you to tighten the axle and inner races without creating pressure on both of the bearings
 
Thanks Eddie. Not sure what you mean by inner and outer race. Is inner the side against the tube in hub. I have the 1970 parts book and workshop manual and I don’t see a spacer on inner side of bearings. 1970 different than 71 onward Tried to add pictures but can figure it out. I’ll try and get parts photo in
I see in parts book that there is an additional spacer 21 on 1971 hub but not on 1970. I got the bike as basket of parts. How do I know the hub and drum are 1970 vs 1971.
 
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The inner race is the small bearing race that the axle fits inside, the outer bearing race fits into the hub.

Inner spacer 68 to 70 that fits between the 2 bearing inner races.

1970 rebuilt commando wheels not turning


andover-norton.co.uk

Andover Norton - WHEEL BEARING SPACER - FRONT DRUM BRAKE (NM19646) - 06.7748

WHEEL BEARING SPACER - FRONT DRUM BRAKE (NM19646)
andover-norton.co.uk
 
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If the Green part is the axle which when tightened applies pressure to the inner races of both bearing through the axle's wheel spacers, does NOT have the red part between the bearings(which is the spacer) then the axle torque drives the bearings beyond the recess in the hub (yellow) and applies pressure to the outer races through the balls in the bearings which are NOT suposed to be under pressure...

With the center spacer (red part) taking the pressure from the axle torque, the outer race is positioned in the hub recess perfectly and there's no pressure on the balls in the bearing which lie between the inner and outer race of each bearing, (blue parts) and the wheel turns freely on the bearings...

1970 rebuilt commando wheels not turning
 
Ok I think I'm starting to understand. I noticed the rear spacer has a large and small flanges at each end. I can't see anything that explains which way it goes.
 
According to the parts book spacer 9 looks like it sits on the outside of the bearing. Mine seems to have been installed first and then bearing pressed on. To me that would mean that the spacer is not applying pressure to inner race. Can't figure out how to attach picture to show what I mean.
 
Eric1109 said:
According to the parts book spacer 9 looks like it sits on the outside of the bearing. Mine seems to have been installed first and then bearing pressed on. To me that would mean that the spacer is not applying pressure to inner race. Can't figure out how to attach picture to show what I mean.
Click to expand...
Parts manuals are rarely good to figure out things like this. The workshop manuals generally explain which way things that are not obvious go. For instance, Pre-71 rear:

1970 rebuilt commando wheels not turning
 
marshg246 said:
The workshop manual does.
Click to expand...
When I tighten locking ring and out my fingers in the inner bearings they won't turn. When I loosen the locking ring off a bit then turn but very tight. So Gould they turn freely. Again everything is brand new
 
Eric1109 said:
According to the parts book spacer 9 looks like it sits on the outside of the bearing. Mine seems to have been installed first and then bearing pressed on. To me that would mean that the spacer is not applying pressure to inner race. Can't figure out how to attach picture to show what I mean.
Click to expand...
Spacer #9 is not the bearing spacer. It goes between the timing side bearing and speedo drive. #16 (that you found funny before) is the spacer we are talking about that goes between the bearings.
 
Eric1109 said:
When I tighten locking ring and out my fingers in the inner bearings they won't turn. When I loosen the locking ring off a bit then turn but very tight. So Gould they turn freely. Again everything is brand new
Click to expand...
When correctly built and installed, the rear wheel with no chain installed will turn without effort. The front wheel will too when correctly built and installed.
 
o0norton0o said:
If the Green part is the axle which when tightened applies pressure to the inner races of both bearing through the axle's wheel spacers, does NOT have the red part between the bearings(which is the spacer) then the axle torque drives the bearings beyond the recess in the hub (yellow) and applies pressure to the outer races through the balls in the bearings which are NOT suposed to be under pressure...

With the center spacer (red part) taking the pressure from the axle torque, the outer race is positioned in the hub recess perfectly and there's no pressure on the balls in the bearing which lie between the inner and outer race of each bearing, (blue parts) and the wheel turns freely on the bearings...

View attachment 116575
Click to expand...
Excellent graphics !!! Compliments from an old adjunct trade school instructor. Carry on.
 
Ok so reassembled everything chances axle down now seems friction is coming from the brake shoes. Or brake drum when was looser I got some shoe rubbing but with it tighter up I can feel pressure. Could it be the hub pushing against the brake drum.
 
Eric1109 said:
Ok so reassembled everything chances axle down now seems friction is coming from the brake shoes. Or brake drum when was looser I got some shoe rubbing but with it tighter up I can feel pressure. Could it be the hub pushing against the brake drum.
Click to expand...
You must apply the brake when tightening the axel.

Also, if the brake backing plate is not perfectly flat, it can rub on the brake drum. On later 70 later there are 0 to x shim washers they go on the dummy spindle before the brake back plate go on to prevent that rubbing - it is not shown in the 68-70 but is shown on the interim 70 and later drawings - and it is VERY confusing in the drawings. #21 here: https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-drawing/226/rear-wheel-drum-bearings it goes where I said and usually 0-1 are required but sometimes 2. It is the last thing you put on before the brake back plate.
 
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