1962 650ss Build

seanalex said:

A big problem that I'm also having (mechanically) is in setting the gap of the rotor/alternator. Any solid advice on how to get this thing to float properly would be much appreciated. I originally had done it with a beer can cut to a shim. I think it was close to floating, but it still rubbed.

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What is the gap supposed to be?

On my C'do the gap is ~.010" IIRC.

If you cut down a 1.5L plastic soft drink bottle so you have the top and about 4" of the bottle length and then cut out a few vertical strips from the bottom of that, you have a nice spacer with a handle that will be able to go around the rotor inside the stator.

Loosen all of the mounting nuts on the studs and slide the plastic bottle in. If you cant get the bottle in all around, you may need to remove the stator and tweak the mounting stud on the tight side(s) outward a bit.

Rinse, lather, repeat until you get clearance all around when you tigten the nuts. Check with feeler gauges at each of the exposed windings and at different points of the rotor when rotated.

VIDEO

Ok, so, long saga almost over.

As to sum up what all the issues were.

- timing was off, too advanced

- timing chains were way too tight, and I think thats what threw the timing off

- new carbs helped with fuel leaking. did have to ultrasonic them a number of times, and blow out all the holes with brake kleen. There was definitely a lot of product in there.

- got nicer studs from RGM for the stator to sit on. They have much thicker waists, and the stator can not move about from side to side. Air gap pretty much perfect all the way around. A bit of a bitch to work the stator onto the studs, but wow. What an upgrade. Anyone who has the Newby clutch probably got in their kit the long studs with the 35,000 washers you have to use to space out the stator. RGM, nice design. I should have taken a photo of it but I was just so excited to get it onto the bike.

Things I Still Need to Finish

- I took of the Scitsu Tach cause it just looked so out of place. I have an 2:1 ATRC I would like to put on, but need someone with a mill to make me a bracket for it. I currently have a 4:1 Smiths on there, and it looks much better. I'm also happy to have the finished look of the tach cable and drive gear coming out of the timing side. It looks much better for sure.

- I want to take a closer look at the forks, and disassemble them again, and take some better notes putting them back together. I also I think I can get the geometry a bit better than it currently is. I also have not ridden the bike yet. Today hopefully will be the maiden trip.

- I know I'm going to have to continue to play with the carbs to get them to the right settings. But, on idle as of now, and with giving some good decent throttle, it's not popping or struggling, so I think its close enough. We'll see how it is under load.

- Wiring. I want to re do this. I think when I set it all up I made it way too complicated. I think I can get this bike down to one or two main wires and a fuse. Its only a 1 button, 2 switch set up. Only accessory being headlight, pilot, tail, and brake. Ive got way too much going on, there's a key switch in there I don't need, and a bunch of leftover from a horn that I took off because you literally couldn't hear it over the exhaust.

- I'd like to find a way to make the rear fender a bit more solid. I think that having the tail lamp mounted in the position I do creates a bit of a pendulum effect, and it hops around a lot. I know its only going to get worse with time. Luckily it only seems to be at idle that it happens. Going to most likely buy an Manx fender, and get a tail lamp thats a bit tighter, and tucked under the seat.

hi Haven't read the whole post, but most of it, you need to do something about the steering stem top nut, you need at least 2 male threads above the nut, what I see is way less than that? Maybe it is a long nut, or short stem, either way it needs fixing.
Good build
Burgs

Burgs said:

hi Haven't read the whole post, but most of it, you need to do something about the steering stem top nut, you need at least 2 male threads above the nut, what I see is way less than that? Maybe it is a long nut, or short stem, either way it needs fixing.
Good build
Burgs

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Interesting, and thanks for noticing that. I wonder if this is a factor of using Taper Roller bearings. I feel like I remember reading somewhere that they don't compress as much as original style bearings. I've also got that tach mount in there so thats taking up some space.

I will take the whole assembly apart and check the compression on the bearings, and see if there is any additional gain in there.

NorLuck said:

This is as simple as you can get it I think... You don't need there kit but the company makes some REAL nice petcocks:

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That's for coil ignition, not a magneto.

seanalex said:

...there's a key switch in there I don't need...

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I don't know, man. I always got a little nervous with a magneto bike parked up with no key. I had to put key switches on to quiet my nerves. Doesn't take much to circumvent the switch once you know it's there and where it is, but those minutes can be just the minutes you need. But, I guess a second hidden kill can be just as useful, and maybe a bit easier/tidier to wire. A hot cam and high compression might be better still! HA!

Maybe I'm nervous because a childhood friend went to prison for a CAREER of stealing old Harleys. He just got out I hear...

seanalex said:

Interesting, and thanks for noticing that. I wonder if this is a factor of using Taper Roller bearings. I feel like I remember reading somewhere that they don't compress as much as original style bearings. I've also got that tach mount in there so thats taking up some space.

I will take the whole assembly apart and check the compression on the bearings, and see if there is any additional gain in there.

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Yes I’d say your taper rollers and tach mount are the cause.

But its a deep top hat nut right ?

If so, surely it has plenty of thread engagement to do it’s job ?

I should think that if length of the stem that engages the nut is equal to or greater than the depth of the original nut than it should be ok .

NorLuck said:

With magneto the wiring is even simpler.

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We know.

It's different enough so that a diagram with coils/battery/no magneto/no capacitor/no alternator/no kill switch is irrelevant.

edit: This reads more terse than I intended. Sorry about that. I'll drink more coffee before I write next time.

This comment has nothing to do with the shouldered top nut. Looks like it is doing the job it normally does to me as well. Although I would probably redesign the tach mount so it bolted directly to the yoke and was not under the top nut.

What I was wondering is if the top yoke is on upside down. I'm not familiar with that yoke, so probably way off base. That beveled edge around the stanchions seems like it should be on the bottom to me. If those are solid billet yokes that is. Only reason I think that way is because it would be a PITA to clean out and would be slightly more difficult to measure stanchion height above the top yoke surface with the pocket there. It would also be easier to slide the stanchions up and into place with that beveled edge facing down. The beveled moat around the stanchions is probably a design feature I've not seen before. Ignore as appropriate.

Thanks for the replies on this guys, I do appreciate it. Have had my hands full doing some work on a different bike, so haven't had my sights set on the Norton.



Yeah definitely no tri-spark, and no battery on this bike. The keyed switch, I'll think a bit more about what I want wired through it. I'm kind of in agreement that its more of a visual deterrent more than anything. Would be much easier to just load this into the back of a pickup truck if you really wanted to steal it. If I were to put a cut off switch, like the hidden style, what would I wire it through?

As for that nut, yeah it's long, like real long. And as for the design of the top yoke, it is set up that way with the recess or chamfer around the forks, and yes, you are correct that it does make it quite hard to measure the distance the fork tubes are coming up. Also, there is an additional washer under the tach bracket which I could probably lose, since the bracket is now effectively a washer.

I'm still planning later this winter to take this front end apart one last time, just to double check everything before I try to get out on the road in the spring. I'm fairly confident that I don't have the correct amount of oil in the forks.

Good work, The gearbox is an early one with the less than brilliant Kickstart spring arrangement. With a well made spring and a good bush in the box they work ok . If not you know where to look. The Mono's are a briliant carb but go easy on the flooding with the tickler . A small shot of easy start in the intakes could be your friend. A very light smear of CV joint grease on the carb slides will cut wear ,but more than that will richen up the mixture .

seanalex said:

Thanks for the replies on this guys, I do appreciate it. Have had my hands full doing some work on a different bike, so haven't had my sights set on the Norton.



Yeah definitely no tri-spark, and no battery on this bike. The keyed switch, I'll think a bit more about what I want wired through it. I'm kind of in agreement that its more of a visual deterrent more than anything. Would be much easier to just load this into the back of a pickup truck if you really wanted to steal it. If I were to put a cut off switch, like the hidden style, what would I wire it through?

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A hidden cut off switch with a magneto, is nothing more than a second kill switch. Simply run a wire from the magneto kill terminal to the hidden kill switch, then to frame ground. A sharp eyed thief might notice two wires on the magneto, cut both, and be off, so only little better than nothing.

I agree, those bent on stealing our less than 500 pound Nortons, are most likely ready to load them into a pickup or van, so nothing short of a 5/8" wire cable with an armored lock tied to a line pole offers much security. And what if they have an oxy-cetylene rig with them? Or a battery powered angle grinder with a cut off wheel?

Slick

texasSlick said:

I agree, those bent on stealing our less than 500 pound Nortons, are most likely ready to load them into a pickup or van, so nothing short of a 5/8" wire cable with an armored lock tied to a line pole offers much security. And what if they have an oxy-cetylene rig with them? Or a battery powered angle grinder with a cut off wheel?

Slick

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It's those cheap angle grinders with a cut off wheel that are the problem
Plus nobody takes any notice
My son lost the key for his kripto D lock on his mountain bike
A few seconds with a battery grinder had it released
Nobody batted an eyelid

baz said:

It's those cheap angle grinders with a cut off wheel that are the problem
Plus nobody takes any notice
My son lost the key for his kripto D lock on his mountain bike
A few seconds with a battery grinder had it released
Nobody batted an eyelid

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Always been the same.

I broke down years ago (on a Japanese bike I might add). Hitched a ride home, went back in my van, rolled up, got out, loaded the bike, drove off. Cudda been anyone. No one batted an eyelid.

baz said:

It's those cheap angle grinders with a cut off wheel that are the problem
Plus nobody takes any notice
My son lost the key for his kripto D lock on his mountain bike
A few seconds with a battery grinder had it released
Nobody batted an eyelid

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The real problem is ....."nobody takes any notice"
I once had a flat tire on my Atlas, called a friend, he and I loaded it into his pickup with dozens of cars passing by, no one stopped to quiz us. What would you do in a similar situation? As for me, I would stop and record the pickups plate number from a safe distance, keeping my handgun handy. Without that, I am speeding by like everyone else. Oops! Sorry to go off thread.

Slick

seanalex said:

funny to see this post. just saw your "wanted" ad in the classifieds, and was about to PM you with photos. Forgot that I had some photos here. This tank is sitting on my shelf, and I'll be going the aluminum route with my finished tank.

This one is a BEAST. No BS, I think it's gotta be at least a 7gal Manx tank. Would make a nice shell for your project for sure.

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hello this tank I would cut up and bin it its one death trap buy a alloy short circuit 3.1/2 gallon tank witch will be much safer

If you are playing with the fork yokes on your bike - be careful for at least the first few times you ride the bike. If you get the offset wrong, a problem can come from nowhere and grab you by the throat, when you are not ready for it.

I've been looking at those same pipes from Armour. My question is was there any trouble getting the Rosenut around the last bend of the pipe before the head?

NorT120 said:

I've been looking at those same pipes from Armour. My question is was there any trouble getting the Rosenut around the last bend of the pipe before the head?

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nope. no issue at all.

The Arces/Ceriani fork yokes are probably intended to be used on a Ducati. You might need to check that the yoke offset gives you a safe steering geometry, when combined with the rake and wheel size.