19 Vs 18 Wheels (2015)

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I was browsing in the Ducati dealers yesterday and couldn’t help but notice the 221bhp Panigale.

221bhp FFS !

I think you might struggle getting 221bhp onto the tarmac through a 100/90 tyre Al.

But having said that, I do believe fashion plays a big part in this too. I realised that when looking at the 180 tyre on my 961, which probably produced no more rwhp than my 920 which happily runs a 400/18 rear. The 180 gave no benefit, but definitely effected the handling / steering negatively.

180, 200 and wider tyres are WIDE for sure. But I think we let that cloud the issue with our old bikes sometimes. Differences between 100, 110 and 120 on our Norton’s just aren’t the same discussions.
 
Nigel, I find modern motorcycles incomprehensible. If a motorcycle had over 100 BHP, I would not know what to do with it. If you have a look at the video I am posting, there is a young guy in it who rode in the NW200 as a beginner and crashed badly - got fixed up, then rode in the IOM and killed himself. I'm probably a fairly experienced rider, however I would not dream of riding a modern missile on a race track. You don't need over 200 BHP to have fun. In good road racing the speeds of the bikes are relative to each other, different by what is often only walking speed. Anyone who can win in a modern 125cc road race is an excellent rider - put them on a modern 1000cc superbike and they are probably dead.

 
Does MotoGP increase the sales of road motorcycles ? I think there might be a lot of delusion involved.
 
Well Al, actually I’m with you, I wouldn’t know WTF to do with 200bhp + either. And I’m pretty sure it would end badly for me if I tried!

However, I was once at a test day at Mallory Park, this is a few years ago, and the Superbike boys were testing there too (I’ve forgot if it was BSB or WSB).

My Dresda was pretty well sorted, and in my world it went well. But those mad bastards on their Superbikes were on another level, another planet. I couldn’t quite believe what I was experiencing, it was a healthy ‘recalibration’ I assure you.

They certainly knew what to do with all the power they could get!

And, I’m pretty sure the old adage of ‘race on Sunday, sell on Monday’ has some basis to it when you look at what folk buy.

Now, whether those folks buying the replica bikes and replica leathers can handle it any better than you or I... well that’s another matter I guess.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Well Al, actually I’m with you, I wouldn’t know WTF to do with 200bhp + either. And I’m pretty sure it would end badly for me if I tried!

However, I was once at a test day at Mallory Park, this is a few years ago, and the Superbike boys were testing there too (I’ve forgot if it was BSB or WSB).

My Dresda was pretty well sorted, and in my world it went well. But those mad bastards on their Superbikes were on another level, another planet. I couldn’t quite believe what I was experiencing, it was a healthy ‘recalibration’ I assure you.

They certainly knew what to do with all the power they could get!

And, I’m pretty sure the old adage of ‘race on Sunday, sell on Monday’ has some basis to it when you look at what folk buy.

Now, whether those folks buying the replica bikes and replica leathers can handle it any better than you or I... well that’s another matter I guess.
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Wait 'til Ural wins their first GP. They will fly out the doors of the dealers.
 
Fullauto said:
Wait 'til Ural wins their first GP. They will fly out the doors of the dealers.
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Take it from a former owner, the only thing that will make a Ural fly....in any way....is a very large helium filled balloon....not even hot air would be enough....

Tyre and rim size won't matter much on that!
 
Fast Eddie said:
People slag Ural’s off quite a lot these days.

A mate of mine had one, and I can assure you that they really are shit !
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A buddy of mine has one with a side car.
I fail to see the attraction to these.
 
I've got the wrong mentality for a superbike. Any bike I ride, I work to the max. And whatever speed you reach, that is the speed at which you must be prepared to step off. I've been off at over 100 MPH and I don't like it much. When the ultralightweight TT was being run with MV 125s, guys still got killed. It only takes a crash at 30 MPH. If everybody was racing Urals, it would probably still be dangerous. My Seeley 850 is fast enough and very safe. If I was offered a ride on a superbike, I would still do it - but it is not my preference. I think the best modern bike to race would be a Honda VFR 400, with the speed-limiter removed.
I like watching the Youtube videos of the Superbikes racing at Cadwell. My step-daughter thinks I am heartless when I laugh at the guys antics when they are crashing. I'm just glad it is not me who is copping the beating. Speed is relative and your brain speeds-up to accommodate it.
 
Beta-blockers are on the banned list of drugs in motorcycle racing in Australia. However I would not race without them. Adrenalin is your enemy, it helps you make mistakes. Some of the speeds in Irish road races are over 200 MPH. I'd use matchsticks under my eyelids to stop from blinking. How would you be, approaching a corner and trying to look at the tacho , when you were doing that ?
 
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I think it may be that the width makes a lot more difference to the handling than the diameter. My bike has 18" wheels at both ends but they are no wider than the originals. It handles really well.
 
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I thought I was doing the right thing when I replaced the 19 inch rims on my Triton with 18 inch of the same width. It really stuffed the handling and there was no cheap way back. I could ride the bike faster with the better rubber, but after even short races I used to get off the bike mentally and physically stuffed. On a road bike, it might not make much difference, because the corners don't keep coming so often, and you don't usually ride so fast.
My Seeley 850 has 18 inch wheels and a fat tyre on the back, but the steering geometry is better suited to that combination. If a Commando is designed to use 19 inch wheels, they are probably best. I think the rake on the normal Commando is 27 degrees - same as the Seeley, but the yoke offset is probably greater - so you have less trail. With the smaller wheels, the trail would be even more reduced. That changes what happen as you brake or accelerate. The bike would probably be more difficult to tip into corners and tend to run wide more, as you come out.
 
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With my Seeley 850, it goes straight into corners as I brake, without reverse steering to get it to tip in - and it oversteers as I accelerate through and out of the corners. I would not dream of reverse steering or climbing off the bike to stop it from running wide and get it to accelerate earlier coming out of corners. The bike would probably tie itself into a knot. I just sith there and either accelerate or brake to get around the corners. It is a very easy ride.
 
If you read about Peter Williams, the Tom Arter Matchless and the Commandos, the main factor is obviously steering geometry. There is no other way a 750 Commando can give away 25 BHP and still beat a TZ750 Yamaha. The only thing which puzzles me, is I think he did it on Silverstone, which is probably a power circuit.
 
acotrel said:
The only thing which puzzles me, is I think he did it on Silverstone, which is probably a power circuit.
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Two things spring to mind...

Utterly brilliant ability

and

Sheer bloody mindedness!

OK three things...

Probably the ultimate combination of man and machine.
 
Very true Nigel PW was absolutely fearless and a great technical rider .... when you watch MM save his race with his physical antics , it is almost unbelievable , except you can watch over and over .... I think all the top tier racing now is driven more by research than the the old adage win on Sunday sell on Monday .... sure there is some of that still but ... most of what you see on each years new models has been refined on a track somewhere ... I am much more confident in traffic or not on a public road when on one the modern bikes the ST3s has maybe 110hp at crank it’s plenty but never too much , the Norton just does not instil the same confidence on road as the Duc .... guess it all a personal perception thing is I rarely think of crashing other than when reading Acotrel posts .....
 
Fast Eddie said:
Two things spring to mind...

Utterly brilliant ability

and

Sheer bloody mindedness!

OK three things...

Probably the ultimate combination of man and machine.
Click to expand...

Nigel, a good bike makes a good rider. If you want to be the best rider, start with the best bike. When I first started racing and old A-grader told me ' you need a lot of racing miles under your belt and the bike has to do something for you'. They were very true words, however I did not realise their truth until I rode a genuine 1961 model 500cc Manx Norton. These days I find racing my Seeley 850 fast, is very easy. Simply because it does the right thing every time. When I race it some of the guys think I am the ace rider - but it is the bike much more than it is me. All I really know about racing is how avoid crashing and how to crash safely. The bike does the rest.
 
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Was Tom Arter's 'Wagon Wheels' a Seeley ? - Seeley frames were a big step forward from the Featherbed. The best British 500cc single ever, was the Seeley G50. And I think that is what PW started with.
 
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